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    • Brad Eden

      WELCOME NEW UJ MEMBERS   06/25/2017

      It seems the word is out and UJ is enjoying a steady stream of newly Registered Members. Welcome to all of you, and we are all looking forward to your positive participation. I strongly suggest you review the Board Guidelines that have been in place since 2002. The most significant thing being that UJ is a NO POLITICS BOARD. LInk:  UJ BOARD GUIDELINES   Also UJ stays afloat mainly through Member Donations. Once a Donation is made you are placed in the Contributing Member Group with extra Priviliges. I am getting very few new Donations so hopefully this will spur that on a bit. Link:  New Members/Donations/Priviliges
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Hunshatt

? For the guys with "endurance" pointing dogs

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Hunshatt
you guys with the endurance dogs.... when you say "the dog will go all day" what does that mean? what speed dog the dog run at/ how much distance-miles / how many breaks-stops / terrain type/ how fast do you personally cover the ground / how far does the dog work from you      and whats your "average" daily bird contact #'s....

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Wes the Newbie

Before he got sick, my ES would lay it down for about 6 hours a day, broken up in intervals.  Sometimes the interval would be an hour or forty-five minutes, sometimes it'd be 2-3 hours.  

The number of miles covered depended on the terrain we were hunting, the number of birds, well, that just depended on the birds.  

I think the most miles I've seen on the astro in a day was proabably about 45 miles, may be a few more; maybe a few less.

My mileage depends primarily on the cover.  I am a fairly fast walker compared to most (except the guy I hunt with).

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x Bred Pointer
What's Timmy stirring up today?

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ThomGordon
I've read between the lines before and found this saying to mean they spent all day looking for it  :p

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wheil17

you're right, that is a ambiguous choice of words.

no astro so i can't tell you distance or speed. JJ- what were the numbers when we ran Tessa on your astro?

I have to give both of them mandatory breaks, they don't stop hunting or come for water without coaxing. but i have hunted the older one from dawn till dusk when she was 2-3 years old. it was dumb and i took a toll on her body though.

i walk too fast. i have to mentally slow down. i'm getting better at this cause i take guys out that are starting to walk ahead of me and i have to tell them to slow down. but i can't say many folks beat me to a point in the grouse woods. although i'll bet i would have a run for my money with some of the fellas on this board.

6-15 yr old grouse or woodcock aspen slashings with spruce, alder swamp, cedar swamp/bogs, mix in some willow and pine, with the occasional hardwood. some hilly terrain:

PA240017.jpg

OR the rolling prairie of ND or SD:

PC080014-1.jpg

older one will work a mile away if i let her. she's honest on a point so when i was younger i would walk into some marathon points. we've gotten away from that but she's still a couple hundred yards at times and further on the prairie. Younger one runs harder and tighter pocket within 150, i'll bet.

P9160100.jpg

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barna

you guys with the endurance dogs.... when you say "the dog will go all day" what does that mean? what speed dog the dog run at/ how much distance-miles / how many breaks-stops / terrain type/ how fast do you personally cover the ground / how far does the dog work from you      and whats your "average" daily bird contact #'s....

When the dogs were younger I use to run them as a brace all the time, just liked two dogs on the ground.

We would go out west for pheasants and prairie grouse, or up to the north woods for ruffed grouse.  

By far the most taxing of the above mentioned is the pheasant huts, the CRP is thick and the cattails are almost impenetrable at times.  This type of cover wears to dog down the fastest.  We would hunt  8 days, averaging 6 hrs a day.  Did not have an Astro back then,  but I averaged about 12 miles per day so the dogs were probably close to 60.  Not sure about the speed.  The 3 rd day the pads would start to chap and the webbing was rubbed raw.  So the pads were the Achilles heel not the endurance.    

The dogs ranged inside 150 yards most of the time hunting pheasants, may range out to 300 for prairie grouse and about 100 for ruffed grouse.  They adjust to cover well, so really not concerned about the range. While ruffed grouse hunting the pads were never a problem, the ground was softer and less abrasive than out west.    

I was hunting with a friend in ND and he was running his three dogs one at a time the whole week, while I was running both of mine at the same time, really no difference in  performance.  Actually mine lasted longer.   But then the dogs were 5 and 4, so they were at the top of their physical condition.  

Now, I rest the older dog, his 10, but the 9 year old can still go all day, all week and then some.  It is in his build, just a running machine.  Also have a third dog to rotate,  so I am giving them more rest than before.  Looking back I should have got 3 dogs and did the rotation as I do now.

But with time comes experience and wisdom,

   

DSCF2036.jpg



so now I know what build to look for in my next dog.

Barna

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brymoore

My setter will do several 6 or 7 hour days together before she needs to sleep for a whole day.  No real breaks during the day except on days when we move to another cover.  Her hunting range is 200 to 400 yards (last year), but up to 800 yards at times.  She's quick and hunting hard the whole day.  Terrain is probably the worst stuff in the country - steep and rocky.

I don't keep track of mileage or bird counts.  I have covers where I'll find 4 to 6 coveys in 2 hours and other where I'll find one in two hours.  I would guess my average is 1 to 2 coveys an hour.  I cover the ground moderately.  Note - most of my hunts are only four hours, six plus hour hunts are ass kickers.

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Stuck in KS
This question has been asked on this board before several times.  It's all just bla bla bla without Astro data to back it up.

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bkelble

My old lab just bebops around a bit in front of me, so I figure she does not walk much more than I do anymore.  She is funny though, get a bird in her nose and she magically is not tired anymore.

She used to be able to put in an honest 4 to 6 hours of hard running and do it again the next day.  Not so much anymore, but she is 14 so I am just glad I can still get her out with me.

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JCJ

I typically hunt two coverts in a day. Run the dog, actually hunting, 4-6 hours per day. One session in the morning, hour break for lunch another session in afternoon. I walk very fast, helps to have a 34" inseam. My dog runs reasonably wide at what I would call 2/3 average grouse trial dog speed. Wide being consistently 75-150 yards away with plenty of swamp edge sojourns that take her 200 yards or more away. I often have her disappear to the front and have her go on point. I only discover she is on point when I walk the direction she last was headed and start to faintly hear the beeper in the distance. I hunt MN & WI. Generally flat thick, aspen cover with lots of swamp. Average daily flush rate varies from low point of cycle 2 grouse flushes per hour of hunting to high point of cycle 7 grouse flushes per hour. I shoot well and kill a lot of birds over her points.

The dog I owned with the most endurance and true grit was a female named Kelly by Al Ranfranz's "Birchwood Cully" bred to a "Patfinder" female. Kelly was a tall lanky, lean 46 lb. dog that ran at this metered gait. I'd say at about 50% the speed of a typical grouse trial dog. I was guiding a lot then, often hunting 4-5 days each week. I could run her multiple hours, day after day and she would just keep grinding and finding grouse. I made a lot of tip money with her. She started out each day at a moderate, sensible pace and five hours later when the "snappier" looking dogs were all curled up in their kennels she was churning along at the same pace and digging up grouse.

I'll never forget one great hunt. I was guiding two fella's from Chicago. They had duck hunted in the morning so I met them for our hunt around noon. I took them to a big covert near Alvwood that was a nice 4 hour hunt. We put Kelly down. That afternoon she found and pointed grouse 21 times. The team of hunters had chances at three sets of true doubles. When I guide I carry a bamboo walking stick. By the time I watched them wiff on the third pair of birds I was about to chew through it!

I have to sign off. Writing this stuff get's me too fired up and I can't get back in the woods for a good month and a half!

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bosco mctavitch
Tim, I think you have done enough triathalons to know the answer to your own question--a sprint pace is obviously faster than a marathon pace, but if you train for it a marathon pace is a lot closer to a sprint pace than most people think.  As far as having your chain yanked,a sprint pace is only useful if you run sprints.

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RookieEP

I'd be willing to bet that most dogs here could "hunt all day" forna single day.

Bosco has a good point . I thing even Ray G has said even the hottest blood dog blood settles in on long hunts.  I always keep my ears open when Ray speaks up. A better que may be how many multiple days can your dog handle. Last year Nelly hunted all by herself for four days straight late season birds, and being a crap shot we would hunt from dawn to dusk each day. The little fuzzball heart sure impresses me.

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Iver
But with time comes experience and wisdom,

   

DSCF2036.jpg



so now I know what build to look for in my next dog.

Barna

Barna, great looking setter, looks like a machine.

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Hunshatt
Rookie thats intresting... I have a really good idea how many miles my dogs do roading, and free running weekly... and I know which dog of my  will last, and which won't(counted in hours in the grouse woods) .... I also spend a lot of time with one of the more successful pro's on the east coast....I'm  really interested in quantifiable  data , and not perceptions

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Flush

If your numbers aren't from an Astro, they are wild azz guesses. Once you start using an astro, you will see what I mean.

Also, for a lot of guys "hunting all day" means 8 hours of hunting, which consisted of hitting 5 or 6 six spots, getting in the truck and driving 5 to 30 minutes from one spot to the next (each time poor tired fido gets a rest). For other guys "hunting all day" means leaving the truck at the bottom of the mountain in the morning with your lunch and not really stopping until you return 8 hours later. Both scenarios are very hard on a dog, but they are far from equal, and thats before you factor in terrain.

Personally I don't really like to hunt my dogs "all day". I prefer to rotate dogs and keep them fresher and faster. While I have certainly been on much longer single continous hunts, the longest one I recall looking at the Astro data was for about 2.75 hours and 27miles. I've seen some of our faster dogs average over 15mph for an hour or so, but I have never seen one maintain that type of pace for 2 to 3 hours. I have never been to Ames, but I have seen some champion all-age dogs run.

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