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Sterlingworth Market

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Dongotto

I for one am pleased to see low prices for Quality 12 gauge doubles. I am a large man and for me a 12 bore that weighs around 6 3/4 pounds with 28 inch barrels and good balance and Dynamics is the perfect gun. I can load low pressure 7/8 ounce loads or go all the way up to a stout 1 1/4oz wild pheasant killer with no problem. I realize not everyone is large framed and enjoys a gun that big but I think they get overlooked because not trendy or sexy. They also handle recoil well and have the widest variety of factory offerings. Good luck in your search and sale.

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quailguy
42 minutes ago, salmontogue said:

One thing I learned from three decades in the gun business is that most shooters buy too many guns rather than holding out for the truly special ones that are usually somewhat more expensive.

^^^^ I absolutely agree.

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tut
On 1/2/2018 at 7:45 PM, salmontogue said:

 

Identifying the reason for purchase is an important first step.  What is the reason for purchase?  Perhaps owning a Sterlingworth is a goal or maybe having a collector piece to use for hunting is your choice.  The Sterlingworth is a fine double but it is at the bottom of collectability not unlike the Parker Trojan.  There are too many of these guns and the appreciation of value is slow if not uncertain compared to graded Philly Foxes and high grade Parkers.  If I was looking for a 20g, for example, I would greatly prefer the Ithaca NID in grade two or grade four. Again for example, a 3k Sterlingworth or a 4E NID Ithaca?  Not even close and the grade 2E Ithaca is even more bang for the buck.

 

If you just want an incredibly classy sxs, why not wait until you can justify a B. Rizzini, Guerini, or a British gun.

 

One thing I learned from three decades in the gun business is that most shooters buy too many guns rather than holding out for the truly special ones that are usually somewhat more expensive.  Buying quantity was great for my business but buying quality was best, in the long run, for the purchaser.  With patience, 3k or a little more will buy a lot more gun.  Be patient, this is not like a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy a Charley Russell, a Frederic Remington or even the Mona Lisa.

 

Perk

 

 

 

 

Agree for the most part on the Sterlingworth being a using mans gun, although I put small bore Sterlingworth ejector guns in a bit of more select company.  Only 10 percent of Sterlingworths were ejector guns and finding a small bore ejector gun is a lot harder and a much better handling gun then a Parker Trojan for sure.  Sterlingworths come in straight stocks and ejectors and in 20 gauge or 16 gauge came in generally 1/2 lb lighter then a small bore Trojan, which had no option of ejectors or a straight stock. 

 

Regarding the Ithaca's, I once owned a very high condition NID 16 gauge Grade 2 and found it to have the handling dynamics of a 2 x 4.  Mine came in at 6 lbs 14 ounces and I felt that was too heavy for a 16 gauge grouse/woodcock gun.  I will however certainly give it credit for being a strongly made gun, but lithe wouldn't ever be used in a description in my mind describing that particular gun.

 

PS.  Agree 100 percent that many folks buy way too many guns when they might be better served to have just a few higher grade guns that are of higher quality with better fit/finish etc.  I however focus on classic guns because I'm old and like old stuff.  I freely admit I'm a dinosaur, but I'm fine with that.  ) 

 

 

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gunsrus

I have to agree with Tom . I inherited my Dad's Ithaca NID 16 and honestly if It wasn't my Dad's , it would go down the road and it's in 95% shape. Growing up , it was the only SXS I ever handled and it felt like a 2X4 . My Dad always advocated for me to buy a Philly Fox but after handling that NID ........... forget it . I went right to O/U's and never looked back until I shouldered a sub gauge Fox many years later . I still feel that the sub gauge Philly Fox is far superior that any SXS produced today in that price range and I do mean anything made today . 

I do agree that many folks , like myself buy too many guns and would be served better saving for a higher grade gun ........ but that would take the fun out of buying guns and for me that's half the fun . Knowing what I do today has taken a lifetime of buy , sell and trade and settling on those I feel are worth my investment .

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salmontogue

I have never personally owned an Ithaca NID in 16g although I had some go through my three shops along with many more 12g.  The 12 and 16 Ithaca NID guns are indeed heavier but comparing them to a 2x4 is pure hyperbole.  My discussion concerned the Ithaca NID in 20g and that is the sweet spot of that series.  I own several in grade two and grade four, some extractors and some ejectors.  I also have a few Sterlingworths.  Not trying to cause insult but the 20g NID is a nicer gun.  It is svelte and pretty in the bargain.

 

In terms of graded guns, Parkers and Foxes, it is the combination of frame sizes, barrel weights, barrel lengths and stock dimensions that determine inspired as opposed to mundane.

 

Perk

 

 

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lee sykes

Sterlingworths are good guns but in gauges other than 12, they are usually more money than I am willing to pay and I really don't have much use for a 12.  

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GB Jack
12 hours ago, gunsrus said:

I have to agree with Tom . I inherited my Dad's Ithaca NID 16 and honestly if It wasn't my Dad's , it would go down the road and it's in 95% shape. Growing up , it was the only SXS I ever handled and it felt like a 2X4 . My Dad always advocated for me to buy a Philly Fox but after handling that NID ........... forget it . I went right to O/U's and never looked back until I shouldered a sub gauge Fox many years later . I still feel that the sub gauge Philly Fox is far superior that any SXS produced today in that price range and I do mean anything made today . 

I do agree that many folks , like myself buy too many guns and would be served better saving for a higher grade gun ........ but that would take the fun out of buying guns and for me that's half the fun . Knowing what I do today has taken a lifetime of buy , sell and trade and settling on those I feel are worth my investment .

Sounds like you should start collecting Parker Trojans and Ithaca nids! 😂😂

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tut

I think Dewey Vicknair is one of the better gunsmiths out there and has worked on more doubles then folks can imagine.  You name it he knows it.  He wrote his opinions on the various grades of American Guns that might serve to educate all of us.  Dewey has rather strong opinions, and yes he has done work for me in the past.  Enjoy:

 

http://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/search?q=American+guns

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gunsrus

Lee , I agree the topic got off base with the Parker vs Fox vs Ithaca but that's how aficionados compare . I also agree that collectors like higher grade guns and higher condition but for my money , and I emphasize "my money" , and I shoot "all" my guns , if it ain't light and lively , why buy it ? 

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lee sykes
14 minutes ago, tut said:

I think Dewey Vicknair is one of the better gunsmiths out there and has worked on more doubles then folks can imagine.  You name it he knows it.  He wrote his opinions on the various grades of American Guns that might serve to educate all of us.  Dewey has rather strong opinions, and yes he has done work for me in the past.  Enjoy:

 

http://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/search?q=American+guns

Seen that a few times. :)   

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lee sykes
1 hour ago, gunsrus said:

Lee , I agree the topic got off base with the Parker vs Fox vs Ithaca but that's how aficionados compare . I also agree that collectors like higher grade guns and higher condition but for my money , and I emphasize "my money" , and I shoot "all" my guns , if it ain't light and lively , why buy it ? 

You sound like a hunter to me. :)   Not so much a collector.   They are a different breed of cat.   I didn't mind heavy guns when I was younger (true of most if us, I would guess).  In terms of pure balance, I was very happy for a long time with a 16 gauge, L.C. Smith with 28" barrels that weighed almost 7 pounds.  I mostly hunt now with a 6 lb. 20 gauge Parker VH.  A good gun for an older man.   I am not brand loyal.  I have had a couple of 16 gauge Smiths because they were acceptably light bird guns  (for me) and affordable.  The 16 was a compromise between a truly bulky 12 and an overvalued (and overpriced) 20.  I have seen a Sterlingworth 16 or two and surely would have loved to own one but they cost quite a bit more than a Smith Field Grade.  I have a couple of Parkers because a dear friend wanted them to be in my hands after He left this world.  I know that they have more complicated mechanics but They have given me no trouble.  Michael McIntosh once wrote that despite their complexity, they have few problems because they were so well made.  I don't know about that but they seem to work well for me.   My experience has shown me that many guns will work so I don't worry myself over which is best.  I enjoy carrying a light gun but when I become adrenalized by a sudden grouse flush, an eight pound Rem 11-87 will move like lightning.   Well, at least twenty years ago, it would. :)   I have owned a few nice guns and some, not so nice over the years and enjoyed them all but I loved each and every one as it accompanied me through a bird cover.   

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gunsrus

Lee , yes I am hunter first . Well spoken .

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Marc Ret
3 hours ago, tut said:

I think Dewey Vicknair is one of the better gunsmiths out there and has worked on more doubles then folks can imagine.  You name it he knows it.  He wrote his opinions on the various grades of American Guns that might serve to educate all of us.  Dewey has rather strong opinions, and yes he has done work for me in the past.  Enjoy:

 

http://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/search?q=American+guns

 

Dewey's worked on a number of my guns as well, tut. I recall a conversation once with him in regards to Parkers. His comment was " the problem with Parkers is that where they could have used one part, they put three." He wasn't denigrating them. Just pointing out that they were unnecessarily complicated. 

 

I haven't talked to Dewey in a while but he used to be fond of Ansley's guns. I had an early A grade 12ga in with him for a check and clean after purchasing it. When I picked it up, he asked me to let him know if I ever decide to sell it as he would like to have the gun. It's still in my safe.😎

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Don Steese

I've only owned one Sterlingworth; a very nice, excellent condition, 16 that I bought, of all places, at a yard sale......for $450. It had a very minor dent in one of the barrels, which I had repaired for an additional $100. I then sold it to a UJ member for $1000 for no good reason, and went on  merry way mired in my stupidity!!  I don't regret selling it though as he was a really good guy who I'm sure is enjoying it. This was ten or so years ago but he loved the gun, and I believe still does, and thought he got a very good deal, which he probably did. 

 

It's always seemed to me that if you're going to compare A Sterlingworth to a Parker, it's more comparable to the V grade than the Trojan?  I believe that internally the S'worths were identical to the graded guns but the Trojans were internally different from other Parkers?? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...which I probably am. 

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lee sykes
23 minutes ago, Don Steese said:

eI've only owned one Sterlingworth; a very nice, excellent condition, 16 that I bought, of all places, at a yard sale......for $450. It had a very minor dent in one of the barrels, which I had repaired for an additional $100. I then sold it to a UJ member for $1000 for no good reason, and went on  merry way mired in my stupidity!!  I don't regret selling it though as he was a really good guy who I'm sure is enjoying it. This was ten or so years ago but he loved the gun, and I believe still does, and thought he got a very good deal, which he probably did. 

 

It's always seemed to me that if you're going to compare A Sterlingworth to a Parker, it's more comparable to the V grade than the Trojan?  I believe that internally the S'worths were identical to the graded guns but the Trojans were internally different from other Parkers?? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...which I probably am. 

Don, according to the late Ed Muderlak, they are the same, internally though lacking the Dolls head fastener  which doesn't really do much of anything except look impressive.  The major difference is the lack of sculpting on the outside of the Trojan.    I agree that the Sterlingworth more closely resembles the  graded Foxes in it's action sculpting   than the Trojan resembles the Letter grade Parkers. Also. the VH has a Deeley Latch holding on the forend while the Trojan is a simple snap on. 

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