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      TO THOSE REGISTERING FOR MEMBERSHIP ON UJ   01/06/2018

      To the Guests who have decided to register for Membership. PLEASE read Terms of Service, not just checking it off. This is covered there: Add more info than just "hunting" or "Upland hunting" or "birds" or "outdoors" or similar nebulous terms in the required INTERESTS field. Despite this Boards strong spam filtering function, some Spam registrations do sneak through. I need an inkling that you are a human being not a Spam Bot tagging onto key words. Also please do not use a business name as your User Name. Thank you.
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RGSER

Reloading for Pheasants

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gselkhunter
Charles, how can a fellow from Missouri make multiple trips (more than two five-day segments) to South Dakota to hunt pheasants?  If I read your posts correctly, you've already been to SD a few times this season.  My non-resident license is only good for two non-consecutive five day periods...10 total days.

Right out of the SD book:

Small Game License

The small game license or youth small game license

is valid for two periods of five consecutive

days. Starting dates must be chosen for BOTH periods

when the license is purchased. Both dates must

be filled in on the license even if the two five-day

periods run consecutively. Nonresidents may buy

more than one small game license.

Gselkhunter

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Larry Brown
In addition to the possibility of buying more than one license, we need to remember that Charles is hunting Indian land.  They have their own regulations.  But from the sounds of the weather forecasts, if he goes back, the snow may be a$$ deep on an Indian.

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Guest
I thought about indian reservation land hunts, but guess I never realized that a person can purchase more than one non-res per year.  Might have to try that out.

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Charles Hammack

The Reservation License runs from Oct 13 thru  Jan 7th  and you can go as many times as you like , none of this 5 day thing the states impose on you ,  this is why I like the Reservation it is the best value for the money and I like the people on the Reservation to boot.

As for world class shooter ,  no just a decent shot is all that grew up hunting and perhaps better than the average bear at that I should say.

My girlfriend Amie is by no means a top shooter although she is not bad for only shooting infrequently ,  she likes the 3/4 OZ loads real well and refused the heavy loads after touching off one saying she would not and could not shoot those things , yet she killed Pheasants and was quite proud of herself and her shooting .

The Children , Women , and Older Shooters all would benifit from a load that does not hurt them, but will take game and break targets at the ranges most people are capable of shooting .

It used to make me so mad when someone would give one of this group a gun and shells that WILL RUIN THEM FOR LIFE  we have to be mindful that this is the next generation of shooters , hunters , sportsmen & sportswomen ,  AND YES I HAVE INSTRUCTED IN EXCESS OF 3500 CHILDREN , WOMEN AND GROWN MEN , HOW TO SHOOT  .  

This being over a 15 year period giving instructions at the MTA for the Missouri Youth Foundation , this is where each youth was entitled  10 rounds of targets and shells per year untill 17 years old ,  I have contributed to many of the young shooters that are out there today compeating in many of the major competitions across the country ,  of which MANY HAVE GONE ON TO WIN  STATE AND NATIONAL TITLES .

So I humbley say that YES I will advocate the light loads to folks that CANNOT OR WILL NOT HANDLE THE HEAVY KICKERS.

This INCLUDES MYSELF !  Also I will go hunting or shooting with anyone out there , we shall see who's gamebag or target sheet is lighter at the end of the day due to the use of LIGHT LOADS .

Regards Charles

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Guest

Charles, I applaud you for your practice of using light loads for new shooters and/or young or women shooters.  I have advocated the very same thing on this board.  So please don't think I'm being critical of the light payloads...that's not the problem.

3/4 or 1oz of #6 kicks just the same as 3/4 or 1oz of #9.  That's my contention.  Light loads should work...PROVIDED YOU USE ACCEPTABLE SIZE SHOT.  That may even be as small as #7 for close shooting over good pointing dogs.  But in my opinion, the #9 shot testing is pure folly.  Your shoulder wouldn't know the difference between 7/8oz of #9 and 7/8oz of #6.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Larry Brown

Charles, 3/4 oz is light in weight--but at your velocity of 1400 fps, it isn't necessarily comparatively light in recoil, depending on what you're comparing it to.  From Taylor's "Shotshells and Ballistics", a 3/4 oz load at 1300 fps develops 11.2 ft-lbs of recoil energy.  Bump that up to 1400 fps, and although I don't have a figure for that formula, extrapolating from the information in the book, you're probably in the 13 ft-lbs range.  Compare that to a 1 oz load at 1050 fps.  Same gun.  11.4 ft-lbs of recoil.  Or bump it up to 1135 fps:  13.9 ft-lbs, or about the same as your 3/4 oz load.  And an ounce of 6's at that modest velocity will have a good half a ft-lb more retained energy at 30 yds than will 7 1/2's at 1400 fps.

There are simply two different schools of thought at work here.  Roster, in his column in the current issue of Shooting Sportsman, talks about reducing recoil via lower velocity, while retaining enough energy to break targets or kill birds at decent distances.  (In the latter case, you simply go to larger shot sizes, like 6's or 7's instead of 7 1/2's.  But because of the reduced velocity, you can use a heavier shot charge with no additional recoil.)

Both can work.  Me, I more or less split the difference between the two, which also works.

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Charles Hammack

Hello Larry :

I do ceade to you folks ,  that I will never change the doctrin of the times . I will give up attempting to share the light loads with anyone except the ones that go hunting ,witness and experiance it first hand ,  The magnum mania is way too entrenched  in this country for anyone to change .

But I will be providing these type of shells to those who want them ,  I understand this is a small Niche market but you know what, after I show more people what these so called non-effective shells will do ,  well these people dont ask questions or make statements like that is too light you cant do that .

I have heard this for many a year now and yep the math doesen't jive according to the rest of the world but it comes out in my world and everyone that enters this world comes away with a greater understanding that just because people say it cannot be done ,  doesen't always mean the marketing people at the sporting supplies companies are right.

Like I always say come hunt with me I will shoot my type of equipment and everyone is welcome to shoot what ever they like , lets compair the gamebags at the end of the day and see who's is lighter ,    I will buy coffee and doughnuts if mine is the lighter one .

I will end my participation on this thread in order to keep it under the magic 20 pages ,  going back to keeping people informed on the progress of the new wad mold ( by the way the prototype mold will be done by the end of this month ,  at this time I will be loading the mold up and heading up to Downrange ,  will run enough out of the prototype mold for ballistics testing to commence and a few for me to do a bit of evaluating at the Higher Velocities  1500 fps + in the 70mm Hull lengths at 3/4 , 13/16 , 7/8 OZ loadings ) .

I will also keep the folks informed about the progress of the Marlin 90 Replica ,  this will be done on the 16ga.com website .

I ask which penetrates with greater ease a needle or a ball point pen at  the same velocity ????   You have the resources at hand  ,  load up some loads and try them first hand then you will be able to post on ACTUAL FIELD TESTING  not just quoting books and charts that everyone over the years have read re-read and have taken as gospil .

I was at the Grand one year when Vic Reiginer (not sure if I spelled Vic's name right but the old timers will recognise the name) was still alive , (he kinda liked me , just a dumb young kid at the time , not much has changed even today ) Vic said  to me to not always take what is written or said to me as gospil for sometimes  folks provide disinformation having an agenda of sorts to hide some things they dont want known , you know what Gene Sears was there at the time and second this advice , now coming from Gene who is a bit on the shady side at times I thought this might just be some good advice.

Been a fun thread, I have enjoyed it , but lets not make the Magical 20 pages, I bid you a wonderful hunting season and keep up the interesting post .

Regards Charles

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Guest

Once again Charles, you are confusing light loads with small shot.  There are many proponents of light payloads here, but you will have to dig really deep to find many supporters of tiny shot for wild pheasants.

I ask which penetrates with greater ease a needle or a ball point pen at  the same velocity ????  

Please don't tell me we made it full circle all the way back to ROUND versus CONICAL projectiles?!?!  If you don't understand the ballistic difference between a round and pointy projectile, then I'm simply wasting my breath...er keystroking fingers...whatever.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.  I wish you luck in finding that small niche market for them.

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Guest

Like I always say come hunt with me I will shoot my type of equipment and everyone is welcome to shoot what ever they like , lets compair the gamebags at the end of the day and see who's is lighter ,    I will buy coffee and doughnuts if mine is the lighter one .

If you have a very good dog, one that will get you up close to the birds for most flushes, and you are a good shot, we will tie.  But if we compare which of us "salvaged" the most birds that had been feathered (wounded) by our (typical) hunting partners, you will have none of those, except in rare instances, and I will have one or two each day.  I want that ability.  I would never set myself up with a load like you are talking about if normal loads were available because yours do not work nearly as well at long range as normal ones do.

And it isn't like I haven't tried loads of small, fast shot before.  I did it years ago and came to the same conclusion Bob Brister did about the guys claiming 7-1/2's worked great on ducks.  Heck, I've shot ducks with lead 9's before, long ago before I knew better.  They work great at short range and not worth beans anywhere else.

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bobeyerite
I left for Navy Boot Camp Jan. 22 1952. In the gunnery school there. The instructor trying to compare our 30.06 cal. rifles to the North Korean 6.5 (25) cal rifle. Stated: Which will go further and do the most damage, A hand full of sand or a good size rock? The answer is obvious. I classify Charles and his 9 shot as the sand and the rest of us are throwing rocks of various sizes.

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Dakota Dogman

Hey Charles, yesterday was the Calcutta, I just got back from a worlwind trip to Washington trying to find a house.  Got back late, got up early to go hunt.  It's a hard knock life.

The short of the Doland Calcutta; 6 man teams, 18 bird limits, first team to limit out according to the judges time (via cell phones time) wins.  Teams drop $600 to enter.  Then Friday night they draw the land they will hunt (random chance.)  After drawing the land the teams are put up for auction.  Our team brought $1200, which tied for high money, we had good land.  Then pay out goes teams 1-5 for the entry fee & payout I think was places 1-10, with top money being split between two teams each getting $3,600.  Not bad for 15 MINUTES of hunting.   :love:

We ended up in 6th this year, with a time of 35 minutes.  Took too long to get the guy with 5 birds to run out of the field.  Team 5 was 32 min. and on up.

More later.  Church now.  God Bless,

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Larry Brown

Charles, your loads work for you because . . . you're you.  Light load of very fast small shot, relatively tight chokes.  That's pretty kinky.  Works for good shots; not a good idea for your average Joe.  And note that I'm a long ways from "magnumitis" myself, taking the vast majority of my birds with 1 1/16 oz from a 12, while my "heavy" backup load is only 1 1/8--and that's a good bit lighter than what most pheasant hunters use.

But note, I don't promote what I use to others, because I'm aware of how unusual a combination I shoot.  Your average pheasant hunter has less experience than I do and has less experienced dogs.  He's not as likely to get as many close shots.  That's why my recommendation--without knowing any more specifics than "I want a general recommendation for pheasant hunting"--is 12ga, 1 1/4 oz 6's, IC choke.  Easy to find in any sporting goods store, and it will kill roosters out to 40 yards.  (Preferably closer, 40 yards being too long a shot for most pheasant hunters.)  Not a fan of magnums myself, although I very recently got a glowing report on high velocity 20ga magnums, from a very experienced pheasant hunter.

And I agree with OK, Charles.  You don't want to push the "needle vs ballpoint pen" comparison when talking about shot.  Where spherical projectiles are concerned, bigger retains energy better, penetrates better, therefore kills better--or, more accurately, kills better at longer ranges.  That is, unless you think a .410 slug is a better choice for deer hunting than a 12ga slug.  That'd be smaller vs bigger.

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