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Dogwood

Best Used Pickups?

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settem

These "what truck" threads always get entertaining...

The big truck guys swear you can't tow anything bigger than a log splitter with anything less than a 3/4 ton truck.

The Toyota guys swear you can tow anything with a Tacoma?   :D

How much does the boat and the loaded horse trailer weigh?

I've pulled an 18ft bass boat, lots of cars, trucks,  even a farm tractor with a worn out half ton Chevy, and it's not exactly flat country here.  I'm know a diesel ton truck could have done it easier, but I got where I was going, and never felt like I was putting the public in danger.

So to answer your question, I would be looking for a 5.3 Silverado, but I'm a Chevy Truck guy...

A four horse trailer with living quarters weighs between 8K and 10K.  Add the horses, tack, feed, equipment along with food, clothing and all the other stuff and you are pushing 14K to 17K, two axle up to 14K and three axle over that.

A John Deere 5 series MFWD with loader, attachments and sound guard cab weighs between 9K and 11K based on configuration.  Add another 2K to 3K for the trailer and you are at 11K to 14K.  

Neither of these loads is suitable for anything less than a one ton.

The weight bearing ability is important but the stopping ability is of ultimate importance.  Diesels are the way to go tourque-wise with acceleration but also because added stopping power is available from the engine brake.

My large center console boat plus two axle trailer and full 105 gallon fuel tank and 30 gallon water tank comes in around 7900 pounds.  A 25 to 28 foot travel trailer with contents would be about the same.  A half ton, properly equipped, will tow this load but a three quarter ton is far preferable, particularly in stop mode.

All trailers in this size and weight range should have brakes on all axles.  I have weighed all my trailers on the scale at a local sand and gravel company.  The Maine State Police have "offered" to weigh me multiple times and were happy with the GCVWR results.

Perk

I agree, those kinds of loads need a heavier duty rig, but the OP asked about hauling one to two horses, or a 20 ft boat...

That is well within the capabilities of a properly equipped half ton truck and trailer.

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Dogwood

I'm guestimating here but a 20-22 foot fiberglass boat, motor, trailer, fuel likely about 7000 lb.   Will rarely if ever trailer more than one horse but assuming 2 1000 pound TB's and trailer total around 5000.  I don't own the boat yet but would be on the order of a 20-22' Grady duel console with a 250 Yamaha 4S.

After all the previous discussion maybe a 3/4 ton OR Expedition if going SUV.

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Dogwood

I'm guestimating here but a 20-22 foot fiberglass boat, motor, trailer, fuel likely about 7000 lb.   Will rarely if ever trailer more than one horse but assuming 2 1000 pound TB's and trailer total around 5000.  I don't own the boat yet but would be on the order of a 20-22' Grady duel console with a 250 Yamaha 4S.

After all the previous discussion maybe a 3/4 ton OR Expedition if going SUV.

Maybe Like So?

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Flush

I don't have much experience with Expeditions so can't offer any advice there. I do know the Expedition is more on par with a 1/2 ton truck than a 3/4 ton. You need an Excursion or Suburban 2500 to get to 3/4 class in an SUV.

For what you describe I do not think you need an 3/4T I think a properly equipped 1/2T will do the job. I simply wanted to point out, that at least around here, you can often 3/4T trucks with gas engines CHEAPER than you can find 1/2T trucks of similar age/mileage.

3/4T trucks often don't ride as nice as their 1/2T counterparts, however they do offer more towing capability, that you MAY appreciate

when towing horses or a largish boat.

Also, my experience is that you can indeed buy used SUVs cheaper than "comparable" pick-ups. Pickups hold their value really well.

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Dogwood
I don't have much experience with Expeditions so can't offer any advice there. I do know the Expedition is more on par with a 1/2 ton truck than a 3/4 ton. You need an Excursion or Suburban 2500 to get to 3/4 class in an SUV.

For what you describe I do not think you need an 3/4T I think a properly equipped 1/2T will do the job. I simply wanted to point out, that at least around here, you can often 3/4T trucks with gas engines CHEAPER than you can find 1/2T trucks of similar age/mileage.

3/4T trucks often don't ride as nice as their 1/2T counterparts, however they do offer more towing capability, that you MAY appreciate

when towing horses or a largish boat.

Also, my experience is that you can indeed buy used SUVs cheaper than "comparable" pick-ups. Pickups hold their value really well.

Expeditions with factory trailer package are rated at 9300 towing capacity.  Plenty I would think for occasional local towing purposes of the aforementioned payloads. Plus, given that I prefer SUV's for western bird hunting trips, it would make for a nice comfortable highway cruiser at a very reasonable price relative to lower mileage newer rigs.  I would hope with say 90-100k on the odometer it would go another 100k without too great a risk of big bucks repairs but maybe not.

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ckfowler180
Anybody ever pull those two horses with a 6cyl 1/2 ton?  Looking as well at something for a daily driver and would save about $1,000/ yr in gas. Only occasionally pulling the horses, 17' boat half dozen times a year, etc.

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Anybody ever pull those two horses with a 6cyl 1/2 ton?  Looking as well at something for a daily driver and would save about $1,000/ yr in gas.

Curious how you came up with $1,000 per year gas savings? The V6s generally only get marginally better mileage than the V8s when comparing similar vintage machines...You would have to drive a LOT of miles, or gas prices would have to go up a bunch to actually see that kind of fuel savings.

I used to tow two horses (in a very small 2 horse bumper pull trailer) with the original (smaller) Tundra. It had a small v8 with about 280hp and 325 ft-lbs of torque. It did "OK" but that was here in CO with steep mountains and less oxygen (less power). That V8 had similar hp, but more torque than most of the V6s they offer in 1/2 tons. My guess is in lower/flatter elevations the V6s would do "OK". They will get you there but there will be plenty of times you would want more power.

But again I'm skeptical you would actually achieve anywhere near $1000/yr in gas savings in a V6 vs a V8.

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salmontogue

Once again, the largest concern is called stop, a function of brake size, tire size, stability and truck weight.  Keep in mind, should you pull a trailer beyond the GCVWR of the truck and have an accident, you can be charged criminally even if the other driver was at fault.

In Maine, exceeding the vehicles limitations will get you a court visit, a fine and if you have caused serious bodily injury and/or property damage, a visit to the county jail.  That is just a start, consider the ramifications of a civil suit.

Add to all this the chance of damaging your own truck and trailer and injury to the occupants of your truck and yourself.  

Towing with an undersize or marginal vehicle is just not worth the risk.

Call me overly cautious but call me alive and fully functioning.  Towing a two horse trailer with the original and smaller Tundra is insanity.

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ckfowler180
Sure, 38,000 miles per year average on my 5 yr old Outback. Difference between 20 mpg and 25 mpg is 382 gallons. Figure an average of $2.50 per gallon for the next 5 years (hopeful) and that is $955. Buddy has a GM 6/4 though I am not sold on when that system will break and trying to figure out if is uses all 6 under fail or shuts the valves.

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Cold Iron
Once again, the largest concern is called stop, a function of brake size, tire size, stability and truck weight.  Keep in mind, should you pull a trailer beyond the GCVWR of the truck and have an accident, you can be charged criminally even if the other driver was at fault.

In Maine, exceeding the vehicles limitations will get you a court visit, a fine and if you have caused serious bodily injury and/or property damage, a visit to the county jail.  That is just a start, consider the ramifications of a civil suit.

Add to all this the chance of damaging your own truck and trailer and injury to the occupants of your truck and yourself.  

Towing with an undersize or marginal vehicle is just not worth the risk.

Call me overly cautious but call me alive and fully functioning.  Towing a two horse trailer with the original and smaller Tundra is insanity.

Pretty much agree with this. A good rule of thumb that I believe in is ideally you want to be towing 50-60% of your max tow rating, but realistically you should not tow more than 75% of your max tow rating.

I've seen a lot of tow vehicles with red hot brakes at night coming down mountain roads. Those runaway ramps aren't just for tractor trailers. But even when not on grade I don't want to exceed 75%.

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Flush

Edited to not break forum rules:

My 2005 Tundra as configured had a tow rating of 7,100 lbs.

My straight-load horse trailer with my 2 horses aboard weighed 4,800 lbs (per certified scales)

That's approximately 68% of the tow rating of the Tundra.

Approximate tongue weight of the fully loaded trailer was 550lbs.

I never came close to exceeding my GVWR, GCWR, or rear axle rating.

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salmontogue

Edited in deference to another poster who edited his own message.

The official Toyota website shows towing capacity at 4,700 to 5,400 pounds depending upon engine and configuration for 2005 models.

I never force my opinions on anyone, never have and never will.

Response edited as the message generating the response has been removed by the poster.

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Flush
Sure, 38,000 miles per year average on my 5 yr old Outback.

That is indeed a lot of miles.

But I do think the 20 vs 25mpg is an overly optimistic difference. I think realistically the difference would be more like 2mpg. While I don't think EPA mileage numbers are extremely accurate at predicting the mileage you will achieve, I do think they are pretty good at determining relative differences and most V6 vs V8 numbers are only different by 1 to 2 mpg.

Might still make sense for you to go with the V6 though. Keep actual weights (not wild guesses) below actual ratings and you should be safe, and I agree margin is better. I generally agree that being at no more than 75% of ratings is a good rule of thumb.

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Self Edit

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Wyo

If you're going to do some serious towing, even just occasionally, "grading up" to a larger truck is a smart move. Yes, a 1/2 ton is probably fine for a 2 horse trailer/boat, etc., especially if you're not battling mountain passes and steep grades. If that will be the extant of your limits, then you're probably good to go. Of course it becomes human nature to maybe in the future getting a larger horse trailer or a bigger boat.

Pulling a bumper trailer with 10,000 pounds of cattle "can" be done via a lightweight 1/2 ton pickup with a small engine...but it isn't "fun" and also stressful to the vehicle. You won't be winning any mileage game, either.

Pull the same amount of cattle with a 3/4 ton and the proper engine/towing package...the job becomes much easier

Believe me, I've played the game trying to get by purchasing & using lighter equipment...then eventually taking on larger challenges...again, it "can" be done...but some jobs require upgraded equipment to do it right

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