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mister grouse

Tall Timbers Wild Quail statistics...cost is astounding

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spring

When you factor in per bird costs in the area I mentioned, you can also see why commercially hunting wild birds in the plantation belt is rare and expensive. If a landowner is running his place with a typical large budget, invitations are treasured and the recipients are carefully considered. 

I was invited to spend the night and then hunt at Ichauway Plantation a few years ago, arguably the premier hunt invite you could ever get. It wasn't as significant as my daughter's upcoming wedding, but I about cancelled things that important so I could say, "Yes!"

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mister grouse

Been privileged to have hunted several of the plantations in the T T area.   I simply would observe that thank goodness there are people who are willing to take "whatever  it takes" actions to preserve these fine wild birds.  

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LabHunter
On 9/21/2017 at 1:45 PM, mister grouse said:

Been privileged to have hunted several of the plantations in the T T area.   I simply would observe that thank goodness there are people who are willing to take "whatever  it takes" actions to preserve these fine wild birds.  

 

Are they really preserving the natural state of the birds, or are they trying to preserve that timeframe from 1800 to 1940 when the small weedy farms dominated?  I've read that when the colonists first got here, they didn't hardly mention quail...supposedly because there weren't that many.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see way more of them...but in this day and age I think it's a luxury in every sense of the word to have ground managed just for quail...

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Kansas Big Dog
On 9/21/2017 at 9:29 AM, charlo slim said:

The cost figures make me glad that my BWQ endeavor is in western OK! 

 

Same here, just NE KS.

 

Would one still even consider those quail at tall timbers wild?

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mister grouse

:ph34r:

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spring
2 hours ago, Kansas Big Dog said:

 

Same here, just NE KS.

 

Would one still even consider those quail at tall timbers wild?

 

The quail on the Tall Timbers property, including most of the larger plantations in that area, are most definitely wild. 

Releasing pen raised birds into wild bird populations has been generally found to be highly detrimental to the wild bird populations as it potentially brings diseases and definitely brings in more avian predators. 

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spring

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it's quite common to see these larger private plantations broken up or sold on the market during the 3rd generation of ownership due to the cost to run them. 

Here's an example of that:

 

Western Union decendents selling Millpond Plantation

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spring
4 hours ago, LabHunter said:

 

Are they really preserving the natural state of the birds, or are they trying to preserve that timeframe from 1800 to 1940 when the small weedy farms dominated?  I've read that when the colonists first got here, they didn't hardly mention quail...supposedly because there weren't that many.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see way more of them...but in this day and age I think it's a luxury in every sense of the word to have ground managed just for quail...

 

An aspect of bringing back the natural order of things is primarily the use of controlled burning. Prior to American colonization, wild fires from lightening strikes were common. In addition, native Americans used fire for landscape control for thousands of years. The longleaf ecosystem, which was predominant throughout the South, was dependent on regular fires, and flourished because of them. This ecosystem is largely the basis for much of Herbert Stoddards's 1931 book "The Bobwhite Quail: It's Habits, Preservation, and Increase," as quail populations flourish under a widespread landscape found in this environment.  

While some of the lifestyle issues from the period you mention are still loved, a lot of the quail management practices you see perfected on area plantations are highly focused on just getting away from recent wall-to-wall ag production and the Smokey Bear syndrome. 

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Kansas Big Dog
20 hours ago, spring said:

Releasing pen raised birds into wild bird populations has been generally found to be highly detrimental to the wild bird populations as it potentially brings diseases and definitely brings in more avian predators.

 

That is not true, they have did multiple tests on different plantations and have found that there is no risk of diseases and the leased birds do not effect the population of native birds. 

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Kansas Big Dog
20 hours ago, spring said:

 

The quail on the Tall Timbers property, including most of the larger plantations in that area, are most definitely wild. 

Releasing pen raised birds into wild bird populations has been generally found to be highly detrimental to the wild bird populations as it potentially brings diseases and definitely brings in more avian predators. 

 

I guess my point is, if the funding of $5000 per bird went away, would the birds survive? If not, is that truely wild?

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vabirddog

Would they survive? Yes.  Would there be a season's worth of plantation gunning available? No

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LabHunter
13 minutes ago, Kansas Big Dog said:

 

I guess my point is, if the funding of $5000 per bird went away, would the birds survive? If not, is that truely wild?

 I think this is what I was getting at as well.  I love hunting quail...and I'd love to hunt somewhere that I could get my dog into some crazy number of birds...but it seems a bit more artificial than natural.  Instead of producing corn and soybeans, these folks are producing quail.  It's not exactly Yellowstone, ya know?

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Harry

I've been privileged to hunt Pineland a couple times and the money they spend to grow Quail is probably more than the report indicates when you factor in incidentals that are not included. Jets, main and auxiliary housing maintenance, insurance on employees and property. Other expenses, not directly related to the part that is dedicated to Quail. And without Quail, they wouldn't be there.

 

In the past, some have tried to buy it and a figure was thrown out, but they wouldn't bite. It was a crazy number. The owners are getting up in years. There are younger family members who can afford it, but they will have to have the same love for the game as past generations. I'm not sure that will happen.

 

 

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mister grouse
On 11/11/2017 at 10:00 PM, Harry said:

but they will have to have the same love for the game as past generations. I'm not sure that will happen.

 

Pretty sure the Mellon family will  not run out of interest, money , or generations of sportsmen any time soon :D

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Harry
3 hours ago, mister grouse said:

Pretty sure the Mellon family will  not run out of interest, money , or generations of sportsmen any time soon :D

 

Well, I hope you are right. They are definitely not going to run out of money. Been awhile since I have been there. However, the special insight was the true love and appreciation of all things Quail that one of them has. He also is a behind the scenes benefactor of many things Grouse, Civil War, medical research, etc.

 

An interesting table top book if you can find it would be: "From Sea to Shining Sea." The Richard King Mellon Foundation.

 

Didn't have to, but he thought it would be nice for these to return to some of the very grounds they were carried on.

 

http://fortligonier.org/museum/the-washington-collection/

 

 

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