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Flushing Whip

Photos of Irish Setters from Ireland

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Flushing Whip

I've spent considerable time visiting kennels throughout Ireland and the UK and thought you might be interested in seeing what the REAL Irish setters look like in Ireland-- which is exactly what the Irish setters of the NRSFTC look like this the USA. First-- this is how the dogs arrived at the field to give a demonstration on their hunting ability which was EXCEPTIONAL. I can post more later but enjoy and be proud of what our organization, the NRSFTC has accomplished. We ARE the Irish Setter, the Red Setter, the Irish Red Setter and  the smartest darn hunters you can find! Enjoy!

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I will post several photos here and if possible can identify--  My feet and a Gardenside Kennel Dog-- in pouring rain

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Carol Calvert and multi champion Apollo21192946_1588305647907045_92104141124444

Met this guy in pub and he ran home to get his great hunting dog21106904_1588306634573613_29212397384131

Having dinner at Flynn's when the waitress ran across the street to get that dog-- the "old style" blocky head is very common

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Dogs are smaller like the NRSFTC field Irish -- I loved THIS guy: 48 pounds of absolute enthusiam. Happiest when hunting and smart as a Whip21231677_1588310341239909_33084456647367

We were taken to the moors to train-- these are all Champion hunters. Handlers are Sean Hogan, Joan McGilliculty, Al Faze and Hugh Brady

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Flushing Whip

Here are a few more photos for you: Me and a RED-- our hair is about the same in the rain

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Sean Hogan and his fine trial and hunting dog

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Allen and a Joe O'Sullivan dog-- what a sweetie!21151569_1588309327906677_32867678875104

Eric Lynch and a young female pup he adores. Very young but could she hunt!!  21151392_1588309877906622_12040270271783

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Cooter Brown

Very nice!

 

Great looking dogs!

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terrym

Very nice. We had one 40 years ago who didn't last long. Knowing what I know now we did just about everything wrong so can't blame the dog. 

Seeing as you have lots of experience with the European dogs, how would you compare performance to a North American ES?

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Flushing Whip

I was just talking to someone else about this on fb but the thing is-- they play a very different game in the UK, Scotland and Ireland None of this running lines and fast race-- the dog quarters left to right according to the signals of the handler. They literally cover every aspect of the ground. (This is important because they are so limited with available grounds and the terrain and such is so different.) If for instance Dog #1 comes through and misses a bird, when dog #2 finds it-- the Judge orders Dog #1 picked up because he missed it. I can't answer well for European places like Scandinavia as my experience is limited to UK, Scotland and Ireland.  I wouldn't want to tell you something I wasn't sure about.   Allen HAS attended trials there and I'll ask him and get back to you about it. Thanks for looking

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Flushing Whip
36 minutes ago, terrym said:

Seeing as you have lots of experience with the European dogs, how would you compare performance to a North American ES?

I answered this question but on rereading it-- maybe I misunderstood. Did you mean how would I compare  the performance of an NRSFTC Irish to that of a North American English Setter? 

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terrym

Yes, that's what I'm wondering about. Although there is quite a bit of difference between bloodlines and how they perform AA vs Ryman for example. But you have co firmed what suspected. The grounds they hunt are very different and require dogs to work differently. 

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DonT

Very, very nice looking dogs, thank you for the pictures.  Nothing like the dogs we have here, leave it to the AKC to ruin a good dog.

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Flushing Whip

There is a NRSFTC Breeder in NJ, Jack Flynn. His dogs are dual registered but they aren't those crazy hairy  "afghan" looking Irish-- his do real well. He lives in Asbury NJ. In an earlier post, I saw that someone mentioned having seen his Champion,  Speedie Edie run and that she was the "real deal."  She was a great dog but died early of cancer, I think.

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henryrski

God, I love those red dogs.

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dogrunner

Nice looking dogs. Thanks for the pics and knowledge. 

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greg jacobs

When I was young we had Irish setters and some were good in the field. One female we had put a lot of pheasants in my game bag. As time went on a few breeders were breeding for field ability but most weren't so the field work really suffered. So the parent club decided to allow English setter to be bred into the Irish to increase field ability. So some of these were registered with akc, not sure how much of a gene pool was really created. The club quickly changed their minds and stopped it. A group of people continued this and created the red setter and got permission to register  the red setter with the fdsb. These hunt more like a field bred English setter.  The gsp club allows dk's to be imported and registered as gsp's. This keeps the ability to add different traits into the American gsp's. I'm not sure if the Irish setter club allows imports to be brought in and registered in the akc. Looks like this could be used to increase field ability. I know just enough about this to be dangerous.  So if anyone knows more please chime in.

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Flushing Whip
10 hours ago, greg jacobs said:

.... A group of people continued this and created the red setter and got permission to register  the red setter with the fdsb. These hunt more like a field bred English setter..... I'm not sure if the Irish setter club allows imports to be brought in and registered in the akc. Looks like this could be used to increase field ability. I know just enough about this to be dangerous.  So if anyone knows more please chime in.

What you are saying here is indeed true. The National Red Setter Field Trial Club was established in 1952. Ned LeGrande financed the revival of the Irish Setter. He and a group of supporters began to search for hunting red setters that could indeed fill the bill. Using Askew's Carolina Lady and others they began an intense breeding project to improve the Irish Setter's hunt potential and ability to find birds. They also  petitioned  FDSB to allow us to out cross to English to revive the gene pool etc. The AKC did not support this but FDSB allowed it and gave permission. During that time there was reciprocity between FDSB Irish and the AKC Irish. The dogs did exceptionally well and have continued to improve-- so much so that the ISCA began to protest-- because our dogs were often unbeatable.  Thus, in around 1978 the ISCA (Irish Setter Club of America) told the AKC they would no longer grant reciprocity to FDSB Irish. This isolated the ISCA "field" Irish and seriously limited their gene pool. For our club, it had the opposite effect-- we had a large base of successful dogs by that time and we had learned plenty in the 25 years since the project had begun. In what we called the "purest challenge of sportsdom" we bred carefully-- the best to the best in an effort to get the specific characteristics we sought.  To be clear, because of the AKC ruling, we cannot run any FDSB Irish in their trials UNLESS the dogs are dual certified and also have AKC papers. The AKC Irish however, are indeed allowed to participate in OUR FDSB trials and we accept their registration. It's rare for them to attend our trials but, as I say, they are welcome. I should add that the ISCA does have a very small group who raise dogs capable in the field with good hunting etc. In general they don't seem to be as well gaited but great hunters just the same. There have been efforts to replace the ISCA/FDSB reciprocity but the show portion of the ISCA outvotes it and makes it pretty impossible. The ISCA itself is huge and the show fancy outnumbers the field portion by thousands.  For the record, our conformation standard, unlike any other pointing dog breed, is PERFORMANCE based. Beauty is as Beauty does. Our dogs are very well gaited and smooth, have exceptional noses but, more than anything else are very very intelligent. That intelligence makes them quite biddable, easy to work with and a joy to have in your household. They are smaller than "afghan type" dogs the AKC show fancy claim as Irish setters and not at all high strung and neurotic. Our club produces a pamphlet that outlines the history of our restoration of the breed. For a copy: flushingwhip@gmail.com

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Ray Gubernat
On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 11:42 AM, Flushing Whip said:

There is a NRSFTC Breeder in NJ, Jack Flynn. His dogs are dual registered but they aren't those crazy hairy  "afghan" looking Irish-- his do real well. He lives in Asbury NJ. In an earlier post, I saw that someone mentioned having seen his Champion,  Speedie Edie run and that she was the "real deal."  She was a great dog but died early of cancer, I think.

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Great shot of Jack, his awesome horse Zack, who was, hands down,  the smoothest horse I ever rode... and I think, his Missy dog who was Edie's momma.  The shot of Edie on point is typical of the style she  brought to the dance.

 

And YES...Edie was the real deal.  I don't care what kind of  bird dog game you play... if you saw Edie do her thing, you would say the same.

 

RayG

 

 

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Cooter Brown

This is a fantastically interesting thread.

 

Flushing Whip, thank you so much for joining the UJ and contributing your knowledge about this.

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