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sprocket

Starting a retreiver from scratch - recommendations wanted

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braque du upstate

Think really hard about paying a pro to start the pup. I was able to hire a top 5 trainer for $ 650 A month. most pro trainers are going to want 2- 3 MONTHS MINIUMUM. 3 months doesn't buy you a finished dog by any means. It should set you up to have a respectable chance.  It will still require work on your part. I don't make much money,  and have decades of experience.   $ 2000 might sound like a lot.   A 2 K VET bill is incredibly easy to acquire.  the money is there if you want it to happen.  My goal was a Jr hunt test title. challenging , But attainable for most. a great trainer ,and  a so so trainer will cost you about the same money.  a friend if mine just paid a lot of money , and was very disappointed with his trainer.  Consider the big picture. feeding a PITA for 15 yrs is not fun. give yourself every opportunity to succeed.  retriever training isn't cheap. look hard at local clubs , and pros that you can drive to in a day's drive. 

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Hal Standish
On 9/29/2017 at 12:15 PM, sprocket said:

Hi All,

 

I know we need to find puppy classes for socialization and obedience class for the obvious.  I'd like to attend the NAVHDA events and use their milestones as a goal for training as we

 

If you are looking for "milestones" and standards of working behaviors for You and your Toller. You would be better serve by attending HRC events. events are backed by the United Kennel Club.

NAVHDA is an organization that is interested in versatile hunting breeds.

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Jake

Books - the Wolter books " Gun Dog", "Water Dog". Both take you from a pup at nine weeks right up to an adult. I used both but especially Gun Dog when I got my first pup. I found the principles of training sound and easy on both myself and the pup(s). Probably Amazon in the used book section best place to look for them now. Good luck with the pup and training.

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Jake

P.S. "The 10 Minute Retriever" is my latest read. Interesting and it fits with my general training philosophy - keep it short and fun. When pup's enthusiasm or energy seems to wane end the session on a positive note. 

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Pat Berry
On 9/30/2017 at 8:22 PM, Cold Iron said:

It wasn't that long ago that no breeder would ever let you have a Toller as a first dog. They are not a Golden and far from a Lab that lives to please you. Their favorite radio station is usually WIFM What's in it For Me.

 

I have nothing to add here, other than this being funny as sh!t. I will be adding this to my repertoire.

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Pat Berry
On 9/30/2017 at 8:22 PM, Cold Iron said:

It wasn't that long ago that no breeder would ever let you have a Toller as a first dog. They are not a Golden and far from a Lab that lives to please you. Their favorite radio station is usually WIFM What's in it For Me.

 

I have nothing to add here, other than this being funny as sh!t. I will be adding this to my repertoire.

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Hal Standish
On 11/20/2017 at 9:46 AM, Jake said:

P.S. "The 10 Minute Retriever" is my latest read. Interesting and it fits with my general training philosophy - keep it short and fun. When pup's enthusiasm or energy seems to wane end the session on a positive note. 

 

 

I'm sorry but the "10 minute retriever is fake news. You would be better off with Gundog orWater dog though both are seriously out dated, for the most up to date retriever training system

Evan Graham's "SmartWorks" is the leader of the pack!!

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Jake

What makes Wolter's methods out dated? Just curious. 

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Hal Standish
7 hours ago, Jake said:

What makes Wolter's methods out dated? Just curious. 

 

 

It is a generational concept. Wolters work is substantial and his efforts to improve the retriever and handler were immense. Technology has changed so much since the days of using the shotgun as a correcting tool that philosophy of dog training has changed immensely. All be it the more they change the more they stay the same.  Technology has really been the difference in modern retriever training over the last 75 yrs or so. Retrievers are performing at limits no one could imagine 75 yrs ago Consequently training parameters needed to be updated.

Mr Graham's work in Smartworks is just more clearly defined and better organize. Evan trained under both Wolters and Rex Carr.

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Rick Hall

Today's mainstream US retriever training is predicated on the methods of trial winning professionals, while Wolters was simply trying to help amateurs produce serviceable gun dogs.   Gun dog training need not be nearly as complicated or as stressful for man or beast as Graham makes it.

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sprocket

Thanks All for the discussion.  So far Dobs is pretty dang smart and has learned a lot of basic things with no real hunt training items other than "come" and "bring it" - he's 13 weeks now.  I find myself having to back up and work on coming when called - he's getting lax and distracted but that's on me.  We play nose games (find the treats hidden around the room) and he gets the hand gesture to search.

 

I think I need to solidify the foundation before I move too far forward.

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Rick Hall

When the cornerstones of come, sit (or whoa), good and bad are solid, the rest is easy.

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Pat Berry
8 hours ago, Rick Hall said:

  Gun dog training need not be nearly as complicated or as stressful for man or beast as Graham makes it.

 

I thought SmartWork and SmartFetch were pretty straightforward and afforded enough flexibility to put as little pressure on the dog as needed. I also thought Danny Farmer's retriever basics DVD was pretty simple and focused more on repetition than pressure. I don't necessarily follow either method exactly, but I certainly learned a lot and have encouraged other gundog trainers to check it out.

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Rick Hall

So you didn't find force-fetch, force-to, swim-by and the like complicated or stressful?  Easy, peasy for an amateur without a lot of expert, hands-on help?

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Hal Standish
23 hours ago, Rick Hall said:

Today's mainstream US retriever training is predicated on the methods of trial winning professionals, while Wolters was simply trying to help amateurs produce serviceable gun dogs.   Gun dog training need not be nearly as complicated or as stressful for man or beast as Graham makes it.

 

 

Just a difference in opinion of what is stressful and what is serviceable. . Evan's approach is easily done by any one with a passion of help his/her dog be all they can be. 

FF, Casting drills Swim-by are tools that help the dog gain confidence and efficiencies. Actually I was inspired by these drills and exercises!

The dogs talent level can not be reached without thoughtful planning and effort. Evan know this and has developed a program that will aid man/women to achieve the desired results.

Hal

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