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BlacknTan

Dew claws. What is the current thinking?

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dogrunner

Dogwood, I like how you did your follow up research. Even if a dog has a carpal sprain or arthritis I would think  you have too many other factors to point at then   just dewclaws removed.  Working dogs take a lot of abuse in the field and can get hurt in many ways.  

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SLR
1 hour ago, Natty Bumpo said:

 

Many opinions above, all anecdotal. Interesting to a degree but not conclusive. What is needed is a research study of carpal injuries, in hunting dogs.I could design such a study. It would use 100 dogs of a hunting breed, lets pick Labs which already have more hereditary orthopedic diseases than most any other common working breed. It would be a lifetime study. It would be double blinded. Half the dogs would have the dewclaws removed at a young age, the other 50 % would not. Then you would need to replicate the field workouts hunting dogs get every day; running, jumping, turning, twisting, etc, etc. For XX hours a day, XX number of days a year and  for XX years. Record any and all clinical observations. Frequent X rays of carpal joints. Then necropsy at the end, do gross dissection and inspection and then histopathology of carpal joints. And maybe even TEM.  Write up the results, submit for publication in a major, peer reviewed veterinary journal (JAVMA, JAVR, Veterinary Pathology, JAAHA,  Veterinary Orthopedics,  etc) Maybe even Science or Nature too. "IF" accepted for publication by the three highly qualified reviewers, then we would have some solid answers to the question.  ( Study design is a quick shot in the dark @ 6AM  ..... )

 

WHO will fund such a study??

 

1 hour ago, Natty Bumpo said:

Sorry, the reply with quote seems to be malfunctioning. 

 

Rather hard to do a double blind study when one group has a body part amputated and the other doesn't. Perhaps an alternative is to remove the dew claw on only one limb, randomly the left or the right. Because the gait is asymmetric, the sides have to be alternated. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Natty Bumpo
3 hours ago, SLR said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, SLR said:

Sorry, the reply with quote seems to be malfunctioning. 

 

Rather hard to do a double blind study when one group has a body part amputated and the other doesn't. Perhaps an alternative is to remove the dew claw on only one limb, randomly the left or the right. Because the gait is asymmetric, the sides have to be alternated. 

 

 

 

Yes, that would be a better design. Probably other things in such a study design could be done differently and more effectively also. But, ideally, everything should be randomized and blinded from the investigators as much as possible. And then a rigorous peer review at the end of the study.

 

Like I said, 6 AM, and first cup of coffee, so..........

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BlacknTan

Wow. lots of good information, and all of it much appreciated.

 

Early removal would have been one thing, but that was not done, and I will not be having them surgically removed, so at this point, for my pup, it's a moot point. But, certainly lots of food for thought. I will say this... I've changed my position somewhat after reading all the pros and cons. Yes, dew claws have offered up some difficulties in the past, but if I think about it in the context of many of these posts, not enough to outweigh the risks. So, dewclaws will remain. and I feel better about her having them.'

 

And, thanks once again for all the good, and thought provoking responses.

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frak

I was ready to type up my totally uninformed but firmly held opinion.  Then I read these thoughtful posts and have to reconsider.  Good responses to an interesting question.  

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henryrski

Dogwood, That Dr,Z really lit you up.9_9¬¬.

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Dogwood
1 hour ago, henryrski said:

Dogwood, That Dr,Z really lit you up.9_9¬¬.

 

 

I know I get a little out of control sometimes.  But you know that old chestnut in medical fields:  "Those that can, do;  those that can't  . . . teach or do research."  Apologies to all the UJ teachers/researchers I just offended:ph34r:.

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SLR
17 hours ago, Dogwood said:

 

 

I know I get a little out of control sometimes.  But you know that old chestnut in medical fields:  "Those that can, do;  those that can't  . . . teach or do research."  Apologies to all the UJ teachers/researchers I just offended:ph34r:.

Well during my brief time as a resident in orthopedics, my professor and head of the department was doing up to 9 major operations per day, two and three days per week. He was a doer to such an extent that he hired his own full time OR nurse and maintained his own instruments at a university hospital. A very impressive and lucrative practice. OK, I admit, no doubt he was an exception.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18431841

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Little Creek

I have had two dogs with intact dew claws. Both of them injured the nails at some point. I favor removing them shortly after birth.

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