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Velocity with a 12 gauge BUL.

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Larry Brown

Charlo, I'm not sure of the source of the logic behind ultra-high velocity lead loads.  Steel is a different story.  And I guess because people have grown used to looking at really fast steel, something tells them really fast lead is also a good idea.  But the stuff certainly sells.  I'm wondering maybe whether some people are shooting Kevlar-wearing pheasants and have determined that the extra velocity is necessary to penetrate it.  1330 fps was plenty good for a very long time.  And quite a few experienced gun writers actually thought the old super pigeon 1220 fps loads were better.

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Hal Standish
5 hours ago, Larry Brown said:

Charlo, I'm not sure of the source of the logic behind ultra-high velocity lead loads.  Steel is a different story.  And I guess because people have grown used to looking at really fast steel, something tells them really fast lead is also a good idea.  But the stuff certainly sells.  I'm wondering maybe whether some people are shooting Kevlar-wearing pheasants and have determined that the extra velocity is necessary to penetrate it.  1330 fps was plenty good for a very long time.  And quite a few experienced gun writers actually thought the old super pigeon 1220 fps loads were better.

 

Loved that Winchester Super Pigeon load. Have recreated using a couple different powders. As i recall the 1st Gulf War was about the time when Super Pigeon was off the market. That was when i started cloning my own Super Pigeon load. Does not matter hunting, training,  gun trials, shoot-off load on the trap field shooting games, it is my go to load.  Having a crony is a wonderful thing!

Unique, Universal, are two good powders that can used 10 build a 36gram(10/8's) load of plated 5's or 6's. Really like Nickle plated 5.5's

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charlo slim
On 12/26/2017 at 7:36 AM, Larry Brown said:

Charlo, I'm not sure of the source of the logic behind ultra-high velocity lead loads.  Steel is a different story. 

 

Agreed, Larry.  But I would contend that the logic behind ultra-high velocity steel loads is rather bogus as well -- more sales pitch than anything else.  In essence, I would suggest that steel is somewhat less of a "different story" as you put it than is commonly believed (and relentlessly marketed!)

 

I'm going to post up several images that I think/hope make the point better than I can explain verbally (digitally?)  Full disclosure -  these are from a little program I found "on the internet", so I can't totally vouch for their reliability.  But the general results seem very close to those produced from my old Lowry "Shotshell Ballistics for Windows" program, several decades back.  That one was literally "from the horses mouth" (Photobucket ate my original images %&$&*&!)

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charlo slim

Figs -- comments to follow

Lead #6 _ 1250_fps_vs_Steel #6 _ 1250.png

Lead #6 _ 1250_fps_vs_Steel #6 _ 1550.png

Lead #6 _ 1250_fps_vs_Steel #4 _ 1250.png

Lead #6 _ 1250_fps_vs_Steel #4 _ 1350.png

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charlo slim

Fig 1.  Steel 6's @ 1250 fps just plain SUCK.... in comparison to lead 6's at the same velocity.  A nearly 20 yard deficit for equal energy at impact (but do remember that moderate steel 6's have demonstrated pretty decent lethality to 30-35 yards on both pheasants and mallards).  

 

Fig 2.  So we will compensate for the undeniable suckiness of steel 6's by cranking up mv (by 300 fps!!) -- that should do it, eh?  Well.... not exactly.  We just bought ourselves a whole bunch of recoil, possible /probable decrease in patterning efficiency, and a precious few yards of actual improvement in energy at impact.

 

Fig 3.  OK, so what happens if we simply step up steel pellet size from #6 to #4, and hold mv steady at 1250 fps?  Ahhh, that looks better, considerably better. Quite comparable performance energy wise to ~ 40 yards And just as importantly - with no additional recoil abuse of synapses, shoulder, or gun. 

 

Fig 4.  So, we could also step up steel mv from 1250 to 1350 and get a modest improvement in energy at range (with modest increase in recoil.-- there ain't no free lunch, never is). If we actually needed more range, it might even make more sense to step up another shot size, rather than chase mv to extremes.

 

Make any sense?  I hope?

 

And to circle back toward the original question of the thread -- many folks who know a lot about such things have promoted the idea of picking a load of moderate velocity (and recoil!) and sticking with it.  Makes a ton of sense, IMO.  Overall, light guns and hot loads are not a good combo.  

 

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