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salmontogue

Double single triggers

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salmontogue

You read it right, not a typo.  I recently purchased a very old, 30's vintage Superposed with the original Browning double single trigger.  Pull the front trigger and the under barrel fires.  Pull it again and the over barrel fires.  The sequence is just the opposite with the rear trigger.  I have never experienced this configuration but it seems ingenious.  Has anyone owned or used one of these and, if so, what are your observations?  This was a Val Browning invention and was not cataloged after WW2.

 

Perk

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grouse28

I think i saw that gun for sale online. Very interesting configuration, unique. Not sure what problem it solves, but would be a fun gun.

Might be a nightmare to work on if problems arise.

Correction: The one I saw was a Browning SxS.

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lee sykes

I recall reading about that.   

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shinbone

I, too, have heard of the double-single trigger configuration and am interested in hearing user reports.  

 

JMHO, but, the standard double trigger configuration already works really-really well, and the double-single trigger sounds like a solution looking for a problem.  Maybe it is designed for some sort of niche application, though?

 

Here's a thread from another forum on double-single triggers:

 

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437439&page=1

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marsingbob

    I have owned four with double single triggers, now down to three.  While it seems like a good idea, I find some drawbacks in the real world.  First the double single trigger mechanism is a kind of Rube Goldberg device and can be very unreliable.  That is why Browning in the 50's refused to repair them and instead converted them to traditional triggers.  It is probably why Browning from the beginning of the Superposed to the development of the "modern" second generation selective trigger offered a non-selective trigger commonly found on early target Supers.

   I am able to switch pretty easily from double to single triggers.  The difficult part of using a double trigger gun for me is the choice between triggers.  If it is a long shot, will I instinctively move to the back trigger?  If I can get that right, I have no trouble moving to the forward trigger for the second shot.  If I cannot get that right then there is no point in having two triggers.  If I shoot a twin single gun I am usually just using the front trigger, and I cannot get into the mode of shifting to the back trigger first for a longer shot, then pulling it again.  It works fine on the sporting clays field, not not when hunting.  I have come to prefer traditional double triggers.

    The twin single trigger was for sort of a niche application.  John Browning intended the gun to have a selective trigger.  He died before the design was finished and others had difficulty coming up with a reliable selective trigger.  The twin single was a sort of stop gap and was discontinued after the second and reliable selective trigger was introduced about 1938.

   

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salmontogue

This gun came to me through a friend in TX.  I am not buying guns for myself much these days as I have far too many and should "de-obligate" particularly at my age, 71 yesterday.  This one was quirky enough to make me "need" it.  I am sure many here have experienced that irresistible impulse too.  My first thought was the relatively few made suggested mechanical problems but two smiths I called said they were reliable and not difficult to fix.

 

The link supplied by Shinbone has great information, thank you.  A friend in upstate NY is Darne enthusiast.  He tells me that several of his guns have this type of trigger mechanism but only the front trigger will fire the open barrel first and then the choked barrel  The rear trigger fires only the choked barrel. 

 

Perk

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salmontogue
13 minutes ago, marsingbob said:

    I have owned four with double single triggers, now down to three.  While it seems like a good idea, I find some drawbacks in the real world.  First the double single trigger mechanism is a kind of Rube Goldberg device and can be very unreliable.  That is why Browning in the 50's refused to repair them and instead converted them to traditional triggers.  It is probably why Browning from the beginning of the Superposed to the development of the "modern" second generation selective trigger offered a non-selective trigger commonly found on early target Supers.

   I am able to switch pretty easily from double to single triggers.  The difficult part of using a double trigger gun for me is the choice between triggers.  If it is a long shot, will I instinctively move to the back trigger?  If I can get that right, I have no trouble moving to the forward trigger for the second shot.  If I cannot get that right then there is no point in having two triggers.  If I shoot a twin single gun I am usually just using the front trigger, and I cannot get into the mode of shifting to the back trigger first for a longer shot, then pulling it again.  It works fine on the sporting clays field, not not when hunting.  I have come to prefer traditional double triggers.

    The twin single trigger was for sort of a niche application.  John Browning intended the gun to have a selective trigger.  He died before the design was finished and others had difficulty coming up with a reliable selective trigger.  The twin single was a sort of stop gap and was discontinued after the second and reliable selective trigger was introduced about 1938.

   

 

Great information, thank you.  My preference has always been double triggers.  I wish they were widely available on O/U guns.  I could never see the point of a single non-selective trigger or both barrels choked the same.  Maybe I am missing something?

 

Perk

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Kurt

I guess, as with any double gun, if the shot requires an open choke and you miss the follow-up could require a tighter choke. Course the other way around the second barrel might be for defensive shooting or "driven Birds"? 

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lee sykes

I always thought that most shots at grouse can be made with I.C.  I sometimes put two I.C. tubes in my single trigger, 20 ga. o/u. no different than a two shot, BUL.   My 20 gauge sxs with two triggers (what I usually shoot) is i.c. and full.  No strategy involved. Just fun to try different things.  

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salmontogue

Most shots can likely be made with cylinder or skeet too.  But you and I are thinking primarily of the Maine grouse woods.  Cutovers, blueberry barrens and potato fields would fit well with your IC/F combination.  Ray Holland, former F&S editor, liked that combination for grouse and woodcock.  I like it so much, I purposely bought a 20g sxs with both barrels full.  It was inexpensive due to that choke arrangement but Mike Orlen opened one barrel to IC.

 

Perk

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Larry Brown

I seem to recall that Browning used the double single setup early because they hadn't yet come up with a good single selective trigger.

 

Theirs is probably the best known double single setup, but it's not the only one.  Former Spanish maker Laurona had them on OU's as well.  I bought one of those pretty cheap a few years back.  A friend was looking for an inexpensive target gun for his nephew and ended up with it.  Funny thing . . . I can't recall ever running across the double single/twin single setup in a sxs.

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TimJ

Not in the same category but didn't Baikal offer a SxS with double/single triggers. I know I read an article about how even if one failed the gun could still function properly. I believe it was the MP 213 or something like that. I think the trigger group was even removable and you could get an extra single trigger if you wanted.

 

Tim

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airmedic1

I remember reading about those triggers over on Shotgun World in the "I love my Browning" forum.  If I remember correctly a guy named "Dirtfarmer" was familiar with them after finding an old Superposed. You might look over there.  

AM

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