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mccuha

Guild gun

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mccuha

I found a guild gun today.  It’s a 20ga Belgium with swivels. 25 1/2 barrel. Cyl/mod. Tight and to center. Barrels not cut. Stock was cut about 2inches but someone added wood and a recoil pad to it. It has some nice scroll on receiver. Also is 2 3/4 chamber.  Blueing is about 90%. It does have a very slight dent in side of barrel.  Have to look at the right angle to see it.  Very little color left on receiver.  What’s a guild gun going for these days. Oh yea. It ways 6#even

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Don Steese

Depends on a lot of factors. Guild guns run the gamut from junk to jewels and their value reflects that. That being said the nice ones can represent a very good value. My favorite Belgain guild gun went for $2500, which is on the high side but it's an awfully nice gun! 

 

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mccuha

I don’t have pics.  How can you tell they are junk. This one like I said lock up tight and can see no noticeable flaws other than coloring in receiver is mostly worn and barrel bluing is pretty good.   I know on ea barrel it said hammered steel.  Want be able to see it till the end of the week but am trying to see if I can hold it until I get back to it.  Wood fit looks really tight. 

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Urban_Redneck

Ejectors?

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Larry Brown

From your description, value would depend on how well the wood extension was done.  Also the barrel dent:  location and how deep.  Is the 2 3/4" chamber factory or has it been lengthened?  You would want it to be marked 2 3/4" (probably 70mm) from the maker.

 

Given the wood extension, unless it's really well done, you shouldn't be talking more than a few hundred $.  Ejectors would increase the price some.

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mccuha

The dent is barely noticeable. Not sure about ejectors.  The extension is noticeable. They were wanting $700

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grouse28

If you want it as a shooter for yourself go for it. Do not think of getting your money out of it with the stock issue and minor dent.

You can put 3k or more into a new butt stock depending on the action.

Might want to have the barrel wall thickness checked first if the chamber was lengthened and or forcing cones extended.

 

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Dave in Maine

You can negotiate on  price - removing the dent properly will cost about $100.  I won't shoot a gun with a dented barrel, no matter how minor.  Given that 20 ga guns tend to work at higher pressures than larger bores (look at the reloading manuals to see what I'm talking about - many lower pressure loads in 12 and 16, not so much in 20), I'd be even more reluctant to shoot a dented 20.  Keep in mind also that guild guns built to the "standard" French-Belgian design often get their excellent handling from the fact their barrels are somewhat lightly struck, making those with lengthened chambers somewhat dubious.  

 

FWIW, if you go over to Simpson's site you can see many, many guild guns in all variations of condition, decoration and configuration for half or less than your seller's ask.  Granted, 20ga guns are a lot less common than the 12s and 16s, but that doesn't justify that much of a price increase.  Moreover, FWIW, in a LGS there's currently a 20ga CZ Bobwhite, used but high condition, 26 in barrels, for like $550.  Beyond it (a) being steel-tolerant and (b) having choke tubes, given the modern metallurgy there are no questions about its barrels, or at least not the kind this guild gun might have.  You can use that as a further hammer in negotiating price.

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Rockdoc

I have to wonder about "hammered steel", does that mean it has damascus barrels? Don't get me wrong, I've owned and shot many guns with damascus barrels, using smokeless powder, and still have all my fingers. Nonetheless it makes for a good negotiating point when dealing with a seller ignorant of older guns. Also barrel lengths, French guns typically have metric length barrels. Since the barrels aren't even-numbered inch lengths people often think the barrels been cut. Good to know and use to your advantage when negotiating a price.

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Tim Frazier

If your going to go into the business of buying old European guns you need to be able to measure the barrel wall thickness and know how to tell if the hooks have been soldered or messed with.   As well be comfortable taking the barrels off and checking the ribs.   I spent years with a buddy trading off who carried that damn barrel wall thickness gauge into shows.  Small ones you could leave it in the car but big shows it was a pain either way.  Back in those days we wouldn't touch Belgium Guild guns, maybe superstition, maybe metallurgy, but that doesn't mean they are all junk for sure.

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Tim Frazier

Yes, as alluded to stay far away from twist guns, they are not the same as Damascus.  I have seen them blued over to try to cover up the twist as well.

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mccuha

It was not Damascus. I do know that.  It felt great in hand.  I was just curious if the price was fair.  I’m not that knowledgeable about europeian guns. I hate to but I may have to leave it be. What is Simpson’s 

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mccuha

ok I got more info on the gun. I was out of town where I saw it. In a rush. Got shop owner to send me pics of markings and such. It has hammered fluid steel on barrel. on rib it has the name CH  Haaken Fils Liege

  marking indicate Belgium  has a marking indicating nitro proof, marking stating provisional black powder for breech loading guns, marking definitive black powder proof for breech loading guns,small bore guns and hand guns

 

also has a stamp that has looks like  AZ or A7 with a star over top

finaly it has in a diamond shape  one says 2C with a C under it the other diamond has 2S with a C under it

 

it has a possible serial no. P1K1986

and it has  70 looks like a percent sign and right under that no. it says 17.6

 

I hope this is some info that can be taken and deciphered

 

any help with this is appreciated.

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vabirddog

This should answer your ? if you have Pics or post the pics on here.  belgian proof marks .   

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