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snapt

ID Bill would eliminate need of posting private land

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snapt

http://www.idahowildlife.org/idaho-bill-will-eliminate-posting-private-ground-then-severely-punish-trespassers/

Not trying to stir the pot (too much) here Brad, but one of the great thing about bird hunting in ID has been unmarked property = consent. I made a point to talk to a load of farmers/landowners on the suggestion of my buddy who's our local warden this year and the majority were friendly and don't post portions of their land so that it can be used for hunting/fishing and encourage it.

 

I did hear from the occasional one who lamented lands getting trashed or people acting obnoxious (think using RZR's to flush birds >:().

 

The portion that really irks me:

Quote

However, HB 536 would make it hard, if not impossible in some situations, to know the exact location of property lines. In her testimony, Rep. Boyle (also Chairman of the House Agriculture Committee) said the Orange Paint Law was outdated, that everyone had GPS these days. Our grandpas might disagree, but there are some other issues with this statement. By the admission of these mapping subscription companies, their property lines can be off by up to 120 feet. Popular recreation areas are often out-service-areas in Idaho where no signal is present. This bill might be creating criminals simply because it will force reliance on faulty technology, which not everyone has access to anyways.

 

We talk about how upland numbers are on the decline and I can't help but wonder if incurring the cost of GPS or mapping services on a smartphone would be just another barrier along with fear of accidentally trespassing would further dissuade new people from our sport? Part of the allure for me is unplugging and not staring at my phone while chasing birds.

 

I know we're lucky to have laws the way they are and many other states do not.

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Sage Hen

Wow I grew up here and I've never had a GPS. At 66 and living on a fixed income I was hoping not to have to buy a lot of extras. I also see where a third violation is a felony which would mean giving up ones right to own a gun. Property lines are not easy to tell in my part of the state in many places, this would be one more barrier to entry in the outdoors. This is not good news for folks like me.

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TonyS

The reason why I bought a dedicated GPS was the spottiness of cell phone coverage.  Having had a cell phone that couldn't find a signal between two huge urban areas (less than 40 miles) taught me a lesson.  I also dumped that cell phone company.

 

If you want GPS then buy a GPS.  For all the advertising cell phones can be useless.

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cf1193

To me, this seems to be a solution in search of a problem. While there are the occasional troublemakers who abuse private land (something that would easily frustrate me as a landowner), I think most sportsmen are considerate of others' property.

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Sage Hen

I wish this bill contained some punishment for the grazing leases that post public land. I've seen quite a bit of that and a complaint to BLM usualy gets an response at some point but it could take years and multiple complaints.

 

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bmeador

IMO, this bill should also include a requirement that ANY and ALL public lands be surveyed and boundaries marked with orange paint and metal boundary signs!  This will illiveate any chance of wandering over a boundary.

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Dave in Maine

This is reminiscent of a similar bill proposed in one of the Dakotas and, IIRC, defeated.  If I recall that episode correctly, it was some legislator who was "beholden" (to put it politely) to wealthy interests who wanted all the birds for themselves.

There is a constant undercurrent of the well-to-do warping the law to close the ordinary people out of things.  We have it here in Maine, where "land trusts" buy up open land to "preserve" open space.  They get  tax benefits,too.  The trust documents will say that traditional activities (including hunting are permitted) but then in the fine print it turns out that that's only for one year.  After that, the lands are closed to hunting forever.

And that's the point - eliminating hunting by closing off the opportunity to do it.  And in the west, selling the public lands to the highest bidder.

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Remo

In ND sportsmen were able to beat the "no-trespass" bill in the 2017 session by hasty organization. Farm Bureau pushes it here and I would bet that Ag Committee legislator in ID is a member. The push here is to privatize hunting for the high bidders. The effort is nation wide.

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mister grouse

I have stayed as an invited bird hunting guest in a seldom used cowboy ranch house for several years in a fairly remote area of Idaho.  I was invited there  to try to discourage the continuous trespassing of other 'hunters' who were shooting elk and deer from the roadway near the house. This was cattle pasture mostly.  The owner felt the presence   of lights in the house and trucks in the driveway would discourage the shooting/ poaching, some of which occurred after dark.  My only requirement  from the rancher was to mark the existing fences with the legal posted orange signs/ markings  along a mile of the road.  And to decline  hunting permission to anyone who asked at the house.  Believe me it was a real job.  Posted signs or orange painted legal markers were torn down  annually by  poachers or others.  Those who knocked on the door to seek permission were many times rude, combative, and threatening.  So Idaho is not quite as tame as some might think.  There was no public land within a mile of this property I am describing. 

 

Also there is a bill being discussed in Idaho legislature to the effect that repeat  trespassing charges against repeat  convicted trespassers  would move to a felony level  charge against repeat trespassers.  

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article199165344.html
 

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idcut

I grew up here in N ID and although haven't been too effected by the unmarked property=consent law, due to the large amount of USFS/State land here, I certainly don't agree with the proposed bill. I do agree with the proposed trespassing law.

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snapt

I wrote my local Rep, he responded that the bill is all about strengthening trespass laws and just happens to relax posting requirements. We're having a healthy civil debate, I do appreciate his prompt response. He's on the committee that passed this thing.

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cf1193
3 hours ago, snapt said:

he responded that the bill is all about strengthening trespass laws and just happens to relax posting requirements.

 

This doesn't make much sense to me. Do our legislators want more outdoorsmen to be charged with trespassing? It seems that would be the logical outcome from eliminating posting requirements, and strengthening trespassing laws. It makes ZERO sense.

 

Maybe Dave in Maine is on the right track. Discovering our lawmakers were beholden to the interests of their financial supporters instead of the voters would be quite the shock...

 

Sorry Brad, I'll take off my tinfoil hat now! :D

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mister grouse

As I read the article an d the proposal, The bill  being considered apparently makes it a FELONY ONLY for a habitual trespasser..defined as one convicted three times of trespassing.    Three times convicted trespassers  dont exactly meet my definition of an "outdoorsman"   .     I think IDCUT is correct on his view, but I do not llve in Idaho.

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Chukarman

I have hunted a fair amount in Montana where the gate and corner posts of posted property are painted orange. I respect these posting and I expect that most others do also. But those who go ahead in spite of the posting are unlikely to obey more signage.

 

I have a friend with a lot of ranch property in NE Oregon. He has a lot of elk and deer as well as continual problems with traspassers. I recall a typical event -- his patrol people caught someone who had crossed on to clearly posted ranch ground and killed an elk. The sheriff and the game warden were summoned and the traspasser was cited for a minor trespass violation and released. He got to keep the elk. With this kind of enforcement the law basically invites trespass and seems to give the nod to illegal hunting.

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pjourn

It's pretty easy to post private in Idaho under the current rules.

 

Facts
1. It is currently ILLEGAL to hunt fenced property without permission.
2. It is currently ILLEGAL to hunt cultivated property without permission. 
3. It is already ILLEGAL to hunt uncultivated, unfenced property that is posted by use of an orange fence post every 660 feet.
4. Litter, vandalism and other issues being cited as reason for this bill are already ILLEGAL.
5. Map software is not perfect. I have found lots of places where GPS mapping software both on a hand-held GPS and the iPhone was out of date, or simply incorrect.

 

I heard a good analogy this morning. "This bill is like increasing the penalties for speeding while simultaneously removing all the speed limit signs."

 

I'm not opposed to increasing the penalties, but the posting requirements are essential. And an orange-painted post every 220 yards is pretty easy to do. If it's fenced or actively farmed, it's already off limits under current statute. 

 

If you live in Idaho, I'd recommend calling your legislator today. The house is likely to vote on this thing on Monday. 

 

http://www.idahowildlife.org/idaho-bill-will-eliminate-posting-private-ground-then-severely-punish-trespassers/

 

 

 

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