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MIshooter

Spaying question (again)

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MIshooter

I'm sure this topic has been gone over innumerable times so if someone wants to post a link to this discussion, that's more than ok with me.

 

My question is this: my breeder/trainer seems to think that, based on all of the qualities she's showing so far, Millie is a potential breeding candidate when she's old enough. I don't want the hassle of raising a litter of pups or finding a sire or really anything related to breeding but I believe he'd be taking over that if/when it came to that and frankly, Millie is everything (so far) that I've really ever wanted in a dog so the thought of breeding to her and possibly getting something close to a clone is attractive to me. So, all that to say, what are the pros and cons of spaying or not? Will it in any way effect her hunting desire/drive/development (bc if it would, then I'm ruling it out)? I'm taking her to my vet either this week or next for a checkup so I will be speaking to her about this also but I'm looking for practical advice on this as well since pretty much every vet tells you to spay/neuter regardless. She's told me Millie should go through at least one heat cycle to let her bones develop and joints close so I've prepared for that but anything past that has more been a when will you spay her type of discussion as opposed to a will you spay her type of discussion.

 

Anyway, advice would be welcome. Thanks.

 

Kip

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Millriver

I do believe your vet is correct telling you to let her go through her first heat before spaying. I have a spayed female. Honestly the heat cycles are a nuisance only if you have another male dog nearby or if it occurs during hunting season. My male would go bonkers for about 2 weeks, had to keep them separate. It wasn't fun. Fortunately she was never in heat during the hunting season. 

 

I kept my female intact for 4 years and bred her to my male. Had a litter of 5 wonderful pups, and kept the lone male in the litter. With 2 males in the house and no interest in raising another litter, I had her spayed. It didn't affect her hunting in any way. The only change is she gains weight so I have to control her diet.

 

My advice to you is do what is right for you and your family, not what your breeder wants. I did one breeding to keep my lines going as I wanted a pup from my male. He'll likely go to stud someday when the time is right. The choice is yours, good luck.

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studdog

I have read all the info on Keeping female dogs in tact.  My Springers and current FBEC were spayed and I have had Zero problems related to the spaying.  FWIW

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SLR

There are indeed many discussions on this board and elsewhere about spay/neutering; whether to do it and when. One major factor in my mind is if a decision has been made that the dog should not be bred for the betterment of the breed.  Even then, there are valid arguments against spay/neutering, because for most people it is not that hard to prevent an accidental breeding. Spay/neutering has negative consequences for the athleticism of the animal (humans included).  For most people, this also is not a big consideration, when the animal is not engaged in high levels of competition. Many factors figure into the decision.  Here is one such thread from this board:  

 

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Ray Gubernat

MIshooter  -

 

I do think you have answered your own question.

 

You say that you might well consider breeding your female...IF... she shows that she can better the breed. 

 

If that is true, then the question becomes... How long will it take for you and/or your breeder to decide if the dog is worth breeding? 

 

I would suspect that it may take approximately two to two and a half years to come to that decision.  I know for pointers, you don't really know if your dog has what it takes to excel in field trials until at least the age of two.   If you have a field bred pointer and it does not have derby placements by the time its derby season is over...you ain't got much.

 

Your dog...your call.

 

Rayg

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Scott Berg

How old is she now?

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BlacknTan

I'm in the same position. At this point in time, I have a near 8 month old female that by all indications, has the makings of a nice little dog.  Due to the untimely death of her breeder, the blood she came from is lost for breeding purposes, so, she's the end of the line. I do not have the wherewithal, experience or desire to breed a litter of pups, so she will be spayed. I've been through this before with females, and I've gone back and forth about it for ages. I'm still gathering as many opinions as I can get to decide the best possible time, and there are lots or cogent arguments on all sides of the issue. 

My Vet recommends spay at six months before the first heat. She is a good Vet, and I trust her judgement, but she is not  gundog vet, and I don't know of any in the area, so the decision is up to my research. As of today, she will experience at least one heat cycle and possibly more, but she will be done before 2 years old. 

We have had a bad experience in the past with Pyometra, and it still scares the willys outta' me....

 

But, Unless some serious research convinces me otherwise, she will be spayed sometime between her first and second birthdays.

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MIshooter
8 hours ago, Scott Berg said:

How old is she now?

 

She's 5 months as of Friday. Obviously she will not be being bred anytime soon. I was more asking bc my breeder/trainer said that as of right now, she's showing all of the qualities they look for in a breeding-caliber dog. She's smart, trainable, very good nose, lots of natural ability, she's going to be a good size, has style when she hunts/points. He was very clear that any breeding would depend on how the rest of her development goes and that spaying her or leaving her intact is completely up to me and my family needs since they don't do contracts for future breeding purposes. 

 

Kip

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MIshooter
9 hours ago, Ray Gubernat said:

MIshooter  -

 

I do think you have answered your own question.

 

You say that you might well consider breeding your female...IF... she shows that she can better the breed. 

 

If that is true, then the question becomes... How long will it take for you and/or your breeder to decide if the dog is worth breeding? 

 

I would suspect that it may take approximately two to two and a half years to come to that decision.  I know for pointers, you don't really know if your dog has what it takes to excel in field trials until at least the age of two.   If you have a field bred pointer and it does not have derby placements by the time its derby season is over...you ain't got much.

 

Your dog...your call.

 

Rayg

 

Understood. And they don't lack for breed-able females, that's for sure, but her whole litter is turning out quite well so far so I think he likes the option of having her and the female he kept as potential breeding options. That last sentence is also what makes me hesitant: the breeder has a sister of Millie's who is showing all of the same characteristics she is. And Rich was very clear that it's my dog and I need to do what's best for me and my living situation so that's why I'm trying to figure out what I want to do going forward. I think I'll have a better idea when she comes back from training in July (she's going up for the months of May & June). I'll more than likely be having a more in-depth conversation with him after those two months.

 

Kip

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SLR

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but breeding a nice dog and raising a litter is a very rewarding experience.  This is especially true if you have some children in your family. There is some labor of love involved too.

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Dogwood
3 hours ago, SLR said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but breeding a nice dog and raising a litter is a very rewarding experience.  This is especially true if you have some children in your family. There is some labor of love involved too.

 

Caveat: As long as all adults are on board enthusiastically.  From the time those pups are weaned until they go to new homes it is constant work to feed and clean.  And lacking a dedicated space in the home will simply add to the friction.  One person's rewarding experience can be another's 4 weeks of hell, particularly the female partner, if there is one, as the majority of feeding and cleanup times seems to magically fall on their shoulders.  Shocking I know. 

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SLR
On 3/12/2018 at 10:38 AM, Dogwood said:

 

Caveat: As long as all adults are on board enthusiastically.  From the time those pups are weaned until they go to new homes it is constant work to feed and clean.  And lacking a dedicated space in the home will simply add to the friction.  One person's rewarding experience can be another's 4 weeks of hell, particularly the female partner, if there is one, as the majority of feeding and cleanup times seems to magically fall on their shoulders.  Shocking I know. 

I can't argue with that. It is especially true if you have a litter in the winter months of a northern state. In summer we have a kennel set up.  The last time we had a winter litter we used a basement bathroom with a linoleum floor for the puppy den after they left the whelping box. The trick is to get them to pee in the shower stall.9_9

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terrym

I was approached by a person who wanted to breed his female to my male Britt. Non hunting owner but his female was from decent hunting breeding. When I asked him what he was planning on doing with the pups that don't sell it was like a light bulb turned on in his brain. I explained to him my male was an extremely high prey drive very much alpha type dog to boot. Pretty sure he ended up spaying her. My philosophy on breeding dogs is leave it to the professionals. 

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Golden Mom

Good morning!  

I agree with all the talk about making sure that you're bettering the breed with a good complimentary cross between male and female.  Aside from that. . . . .

Early neutering/spaying has been linked to joint problems and such later in life.  With a larger breed male, it is definitely recommended to neuter after 2 years of age.  Females are a bit different because. . . .

 

With EACH (including their first) heat cycle they go through, their chances of developing mammary tumors/cancer increases exponentially.  You kind of have to weight the odds there and make your own decision.  What I'm hearing from a lot of our (veterinary) community is that your chances of mammary tumors is worse than your chances of complications from "early" spay.   And mammary tumors are raunchy stuff.  :(

 

Beth

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Dave Quindt
On 3/10/2018 at 8:29 PM, MIshooter said:

My question is this: my breeder/trainer seems to think that, based on all of the qualities she's showing so far, Millie is a potential breeding candidate when she's old enough.

 

On 3/11/2018 at 7:19 PM, MIshooter said:

 

She's 5 months as of Friday.

 

Let me just say this; I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of pups at 6 months old that looked to be a superstar only to be nothing more than average, at best, at 2 years old.

 

The dog game is full of all sorts of people who want to influence what newbies are doing with the pups they own.  I could write a book on what I've seen myself.

 

Unless you are dealing with a very obscure breed, no individual dog in any breed is so important enough that the breed would be harmed if an individual dog is not part of the breeding pool. Do what is best for you and your dog; if the breeder likes what he sees in your female he can always repeat the breeding, and keep all of the females for himself.  Make sure to understand that his agenda and your agenda are two different things. 

 

JMO,

Dave

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