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MAArcher

Best dog training book/method/system?

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MAArcher
On 4/4/2018 at 1:57 AM, Meridiandave said:

Pages 91 to 176 really cover the training.  As a person involved in NAHVDA, he basically tells you how to get dogs ready for the testing, which also is a great guide to unlocking a dogs natural abilities.

Just finished the book.  I liked it a lot.  Although there's a lot of "fluff", story telling and reminiscing and name dropping, which is not necessarily a bad thing, there was some good training info in it, even a little bit about shed hunting and wounded deer tracking.  I didn't like all the "haziness" around force fetching though.  I think he'd have much better served his audience by having a guest writer do a chapter on it, or at least edit it after a wrote it rather than just omit how to ear pinch.  The only other critique I'd have is it would be great to have a hypothetical training calendar laid out, from week 8 through versatile champion, including where basic obedience, wounded deer tracking and shed hunting might all be overlayed.  I know every dog is different but it would make a good quick reference and something to shoot for and gauge your dogs progression against.  

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Hal Standish

14 hours ago, MAArcher said:

Just finished the book.  I liked it a lot.  Although there's a lot of "fluff", story telling and reminiscing and name dropping, which is not necessarily a bad thing, there was some good training info in it, even a little bit about shed hunting and wounded deer tracking.  I didn't like all the "haziness" around force fetching though.  I think he'd have much better served his audience by having a guest writer do a chapter on it, or at least edit it after a wrote it rather than just omit how to ear pinch.  The only other critique I'd have is it would be great to have a hypothetical training calendar laid out, from week 8 through versatile champion, including where basic obedience, wounded deer tracking and shed hunting might all be overlayed.  I know every dog is different but it would make a good quick reference and something to shoot for and gauge your dogs progression against.  

 

Train your dog where it's at not, where  another dog is or a previous dog is at certain age. That's reason hypothetical training calendars do not work. 

Example 90% of my own dogs are steady to wing and shot before NAVHDA  dogs take their NA test. What good would a progress calendar do? 

Set your own goals and standards.  Only judge your dog against competition on that day.

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Flairball
On 4/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Jake said:

Do you want to field trial or have a hunting partner. Very different dogs and training. I have always been torn by the question but in the end prefer a hunting partner and companion my wife can enjoy too. Have and have read a host of other training books but basically still follow Walters tenets with excellent results for me and what I want. I Upland maybe 3 months in total but live with my dog 12 months and if you count hours the ratio is even greater. 

There is no difference between the two other than training level. Training level doesn’t alter personality. A nice, pleasant to be around, easy for the wife to handle dog is just that whether a trialing dog or a weekend hunter. My wife easily handles our dogs, and as for around the house,.....

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Flairball
On 4/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Jake said:

Do you want to field trial or have a hunting partner. Very different dogs and training. I have always been torn by the question but in the end prefer a hunting partner and companion my wife can enjoy too. Have and have read a host of other training books but basically still follow Walters tenets with excellent results for me and what I want. I Upland maybe 3 months in total but live with my dog 12 months and if you count hours the ratio is even greater. 

There is no difference between the two other than training level. Training level doesn’t alter personality. A nice, pleasant to be around, easy for the wife to handle dog is just that whether a trialing dog or a weekend hunter. My wife easily handles our dogs, and as for around the house,.....

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Flairball
On 4/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Jake said:

Do you want to field trial or have a hunting partner. Very different dogs and training. I have always been torn by the question but in the end prefer a hunting partner and companion my wife can enjoy too. Have and have read a host of other training books but basically still follow Walters tenets with excellent results for me and what I want. I Upland maybe 3 months in total but live with my dog 12 months and if you count hours the ratio is even greater. 

There is no difference between the two other than training level. Training level doesn’t alter personality. A nice, pleasant to be around, easy for the wife to handle dog is just that whether a trialing dog or a weekend hunter. My wife easily handles our dogs, and as for around the house,.....

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Flairball
On 4/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Jake said:

Do you want to field trial or have a hunting partner. Very different dogs and training. I have always been torn by the question but in the end prefer a hunting partner and companion my wife can enjoy too. Have and have read a host of other training books but basically still follow Walters tenets with excellent results for me and what I want. I Upland maybe 3 months in total but live with my dog 12 months and if you count hours the ratio is even greater. 

There is no difference between the two other than training level. Training level doesn’t alter personality. A nice, pleasant to be around, easy for the wife to handle dog is just that whether a trialing dog or a weekend hunter. My wife easily handles our dogs, and as for around the house,.....

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MAArcher
42 minutes ago, Hal Standish said:

 

Train your dog where it's at not, where  another dog is or a previous dog is at certain age. That's reason hypothetical training calendars do not work. 

Example 90% of my own dogs are steady to wing and shot before NAVHDA  dogs take their NA test. What good would a progress calendar do? 

Set your own goals and standards.  Only judge your dog against competition on that day.

 

I think a calendar would be helpful because it would help lay out a plan and timeline graphically, which is how some of us learn/memorize best.  Its not really any different then what a lot of books do now, laying out a training program textually.  I'd like to see a training app that you can customize and would send you reminders and tips and help you journal the experience.  

 

There are a number of Utility prized dogs under 13 months, I'd love to see a calendar of exactly how their training schedules actually played out.  I think the youngest VC champion might be around 26 months.  

 

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Rick Hall

While you might follow someone else's flow chart, a timeline would only be remotely applicable to those with a very similar knowledge base and training opportunities working dogs of very similar aptitude - and probably not even that. 

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Urban_Redneck
On 4/16/2018 at 7:54 AM, MAArcher said:

 

I think a calendar would be helpful because it would help lay out a plan and timeline graphically, which is how some of us learn/memorize best.  Its not really any different then what a lot of books do now, laying out a training program textually.  I'd like to see a training app that you can customize and would send you reminders and tips and help you journal the experience.  

 

There are a number of Utility prized dogs under 13 months, I'd love to see a calendar of exactly how their training schedules actually played out.  I think the youngest VC champion might be around 26 months.  

 

 

Dogs mature at different rates, individual dogs can take different levels of training pressure. Train your dog at his rate of comprehension, I've seen little sadder than watching a handsome,  well bred DD,  blink birds two weeks before the NA last year. 

 

There is a little bit of a "race" for some in NAVHDA to prize younger and younger dogs, their defense is it identifies superior, fast learning dogs. More than a few reinforce the "robot dog" reputation that some have of NAVHDA.

 

I suppose most any dog can be broke quickly if your not concerned with preserving style. If you test NA this year,  review the requirements, it really isn't much and there's no extra credit for going beyond.

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MAArcher

I just read an interesting chapter from "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer" by John Jeanneney.  I'm only half way through the book, but its one of the best dog books I've read so far.  He talked about new brain scan studies being used to study adolescence in humans and he related it to what he's seen in dog training.  He spoke of numerous dogs that showed great promise in early training, and then seemed to just lose all ability to blood track at about a year old, which lasted six months to a year, at which point the dog recovered to show their original promise.  He thinks that it has to do with how the brain develops and cautions about giving up on a dog too soon because they could just be going through "adolescence" and once they finish, their frontal cortex will straighten out the neural pathways that are needed for the vast focus that is needed to blood track.   In the mean time he suggests just focusing training on obedience and bonding and periodically coming back to tracking to see where the pup is at.  He even felt that he'd seen enough anecdotal evidence to indicate that the length of the "adolescence" period could be tied to breed, with some averaging shorter or longer compared to others. 

 

I think the reason I didn't train my first dog to higher levels is due in part because of not understanding this "adolescence" period.  Without swift progression in training we lost steam and I just never came back to it, feeling that the basics were good enough.  This next dog I'd like to take further beyond just having a great "meat" dog.  

 

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Urban_Redneck
6 hours ago, MAArcher said:

 

 

I think the reason I didn't train my first dog to higher levels is due in part because of not understanding this "adolescence" period.  Without swift progression in training we lost steam and I just never came back to it, feeling that the basics were good enough.  This next dog I'd like to take further beyond just having a great "meat" dog.  

 

 

I believe my pup would have easily earned a NA prize 1 (112) at 6 mo. We tested at 15mo and she earned a prize 1  but,  earned a deduction for cooperation  that I attribute to rebellious  teenager syndrome..

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Meridiandave
On 4/15/2018 at 2:08 PM, MAArcher said:

Just finished the book.  I liked it a lot.  Although there's a lot of "fluff", story telling and reminiscing and name dropping, which is not necessarily a bad thing, there was some good training info in it, even a little bit about shed hunting and wounded deer tracking.  I didn't like all the "haziness" around force fetching though.  I think he'd have much better served his audience by having a guest writer do a chapter on it, or at least edit it after a wrote it rather than just omit how to ear pinch.  The only other critique I'd have is it would be great to have a hypothetical training calendar laid out, from week 8 through versatile champion, including where basic obedience, wounded deer tracking and shed hunting might all be overlayed.  I know every dog is different but it would make a good quick reference and something to shoot for and gauge your dogs progression against.  

Honestly, I felt the same thing regarding FF chapter.   I know he does not FF his own dogs, bit when me and my friend were FF our dogs he gave us the best advice.  He accurately predicted at what points our dogs would rebel in the force to pile.  They both rebelled at that exact point. 

 

Then last week some of us were training at his place.  I was working on getting my dog to cross the water to a bucket and training.   He watched gave me a drill that worked immediately.    

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