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terrym

Scary day.

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Brad Eden

I have a question and its an earnest one. I have only fed flushing dogs, a Golden and a pack of Springers. Not one ever chased any deer. And they have had plenty of opportunity from the day they came home. The only thing I may have done is whistle them to sit if I see a deer go off. But none have ever chased. We now live basically in the woods. Our yard opens up to a Marsh that when frozen was a deer zoo this past winter. Cash (and Luna Cav) would see the deer hightail it across the Marsh a couple times a week when we were outside. They stare but never flinch. Maybe this is unusual and Members with flushing dogs have a problem with them chasing deer. My suspicion is they generally don't. Which perplexes me since a flushing dog is geared to chase in a sense whereas a pointing dog is geared to stop and point. (Birds of course, but you get what I mean) Is this because flushers are typically close to the hunter and can't get away with it, whereas a pointing dog is often out of sight so takes more liberties? Do pointing breeds chase deer more than flushing breeds?...and if yes why?

 

(To be fair I had a female springer that wouldn't rest until every wild turkey she encountered was airborne. I lost her once because of this and it was the longest 3 hours I've ever spent until someone found her and dialed the number on her collar)

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Ray Gubernat

Brad -

 

I think the pointing breeds will tend to chase deer more often and farther than flushing or retrieving breeds simply because they are hard wired to range out and search for game.  Flushing type dogs are( I think) more hardwired to stay close to the handler and gun.  Just my opinon.

 

Terry -

 

Regarding breaking a dog off deer... some things you could try.

 

Goats can make a very good substitute for deer.  If you know where there are some goats kept, you can walk the dog(in a harness and completely under your control of course... by their pasture.  When the dog sees the goats, stop and stand there.  Say nothing , but just stop and stand there.   

Even if the dog goes bonkers, just stand there.  Eventually the dog will stand and watch the goats.  If the goats scamper off...GREAT.  Just stand there, let the dog watch them leave and then take the dog on.  With repetition, the dog will learn to "mark" the goats by standing there and you can then move on.   This may take a while, but it is a good, low pressure way to get a dog to pretty much ignore deer because the sight of the deer means it gets to stand there...and then stand there some more... when it would much rather be hunting. 

 

If you have a buddy or two that are into deer hunting and  have trail cams set up, you could ask them to use an active deer run to break your dog during the summer months.  Actual deer are better, but a fresh scent will do in the absence of actual deer.   

 

I would identify an active, freshly used deer run and know its EXACT location.  Then I would go get the dog and let it run, either free or with a checkcord on.   I would try to direct the dog's run so that it crosses the deer trail perpendicular.  When the dog crosses the deer trail, if it takes a single step either up or down the trail... Hit it with an 8 second high hard one.     You want the dog to associate the "smell" of a deer with serious unpleasantness.    A few repetitions of this lesson in different areas should be all that is necessary for the dog to "actively" avoid the scent of deer.

 

If during these runs the dog spots an actual deer and starts after it... even a step or two... I recommend a series of high intensity nicks in quick succession to convince the dog that it really does nto want to go there.

 

RayG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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birdhuntervet

I’ve had some that chase something (deer, bear, coyote) and then lockdown when you nick them so you have to walk back down a mountainside to fetch them. One of these dogs I am putting in retirement for this. He needs to be a preserve dog. I had one with me in KS this year, a yearling bitch, that came into heat on the first day of the trip. She evidently developed an estrogen overload as she would take off in a straight line and head to the Gulf of Mexico. Of course she did this with a farming collar on but turned off. I finally ran her down in a cornfield with my truck, cut her off and placed her in box, only coming out to relieve herself after that stunt. Sometimes you get a dog in new country and (in the plains) they try to find the horizon. I usually figure a dog that hasn’t been west will be useless for a good bit of the first week on the plains. Likewise, flatland dogs have a tough time figuring out mountains (some dogs more than others). Runoffs seem to be less common if one hunts 2 at the time and the 2 are buddies. 

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upstate
On 4/1/2018 at 8:54 PM, SelbyLowndes said:

i once had a pure white English Setter named Dan. He was grown when given to me. Dan took no cammands, ran off when he wanted, barked at night,  and was generally uncontrollable.  My oldest son's first words were "Hush Dan" from me opening the window and shouting at the dog.   I later determined he was deaf.  I likely could have broke him if shock collars had been available back then. He kind of culled himself when I left him with my father for a weekend trip we were taking,  He tossed Dan a Gainesburger and the poor dog choked to death on it.  He's buried in my backyard...SelbyLowndes  

Choked on Gainesburger. That is quite a way to go. 

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Hal Standish
On 4/15/2018 at 6:35 PM, Ray Gubernat said:

 

 

   "Flushing type dogs are( I think) more hardwired to stay close to the handler and gun.  Just my opinion."

 

 

 

RayG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fake news, Ray no such thing as a flushing dog being hardwired to stay close to the handler and gun!  38 yrs of Sapnieling 3 yrs with the benchies and 35 with the field bred.

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terrym
On 2018-04-15 at 4:07 PM, Brad Eden said:

I have a question and its an earnest one. I have only fed flushing dogs, a Golden and a pack of Springers. Not one ever chased any deer. And they have had plenty of opportunity from the day they came home. The only thing I may have done is whistle them to sit if I see a deer go off. But none have ever chased. We now live basically in the woods. Our yard opens up to a Marsh that when frozen was a deer zoo this past winter. Cash (and Luna Cav) would see the deer hightail it across the Marsh a couple times a week when we were outside. They stare but never flinch. Maybe this is unusual and Members with flushing dogs have a problem with them chasing deer. My suspicion is they generally don't. Which perplexes me since a flushing dog is geared to chase in a sense whereas a pointing dog is geared to stop and point. (Birds of course, but you get what I mean) Is this because flushers are typically close to the hunter and can't get away with it, whereas a pointing dog is often out of sight so takes more liberties? Do pointing breeds chase deer more than flushing breeds?...and if yes why?

 

(To be fair I had a female springer that wouldn't rest until every wild turkey she encountered was airborne. I lost her once because of this and it was the longest 3 hours I've ever spent until someone found her and dialed the number on her collar)

Would the flushers react the same if they got close and the deer ran? I'm sure my Setter was sight chasing at first. 

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ThreeDogs

Ray has good advice! I have only had one dog that was a deer chaser and it was a Springer spaniel. I cant see how those stubby legs caried him so far I never ran him with a gps so I don’t know how far he got but the last I saw him he was a tiny spec a 1/2 mike or so out, he got on some deer one day pheasant hunting and I didn’t see him for four hours. I finally got out my pointer and went hunting I figured Bolt would find his way back and if he didn’t one of the farmers in the area might take a liking to him...when we got back to the truck with two limits of roosters he was asleep under the truck. I was never so happy/sad to see him.

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bullseyebill

We  had a friend whose dog was going after deer.  He shocked him hard when he knew he was doing it again.  It took the rest of the season to calm down.  Every time he smelled a deer, he stopped hunting.  Just a warning that sometimes shocking hard can have unintended consequences.

 

Cindy

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blanked

Why not quit free running .   Road the dog from a mountain bike/ walky  dog

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terrym
7 hours ago, bullseyebill said:

We  had a friend whose dog was going after deer.  He shocked him hard when he knew he was doing it again.  It took the rest of the season to calm down.  Every time he smelled a deer, he stopped hunting.  Just a warning that sometimes shocking hard can have unintended consequences.

 

Cindy

Good point. My biggest problem is she was out of sight when it started. I don't shock a dog I don't see. 

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Okhotnik
On 4/1/2018 at 10:28 AM, terrym said:

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. What would you suggest?

 

 

I use “leave it” command starting at a young age with a lead first and later e collar. One of the few times I use shock feature ( on high) on e collar. Of course depends on dog’s character on how high setting. My experience is the more intelligent dogs will test you so in my experience I use a higher setting then use a beep or vibrate as reminder. Seems to work but your mileage may vary imo

 

When i I walk on leash in urban areas and there dogs squirrels etc I use “leave it” command.

 

i don’t tolerate chasing deer and coons cats  etc

 

i use it for snakes and porcupines too

 

i almost lost a dog to a car a few years ago. She chased a goose flying overhead during training and crossed road and hit by a car but survived.

 

that is a priority in training  now first year

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Okhotnik
On 4/24/2018 at 7:27 AM, terrym said:

Good point. My biggest problem is she was out of sight when it started. I don't shock a dog I don't see. 

I use beep or vibrate or mode

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mcgreg
On 4/14/2018 at 11:28 PM, LabHunter said:

So what do you do if the dog ignores the E-collar?  She abides if it's a normal situation...but if she's in hot pursuit she could care less.  She's a 3 year old GSP.  When she was younger, I had to run the thing on level 15 out of 18 in order to get any reaction even in a normal training scenario (i.e. no live game).  It's not a loose collar or anything like that...she just has a high pain tolerance I think.

 

Now that she's a little more mellow & mature and she does seem to abide it a bit better when attempting to run deer...but the E collar isn't enough of a deterrent.  The collar is a Garmin Delta Upland.  Any other tactics?

 

Trev

My idea is that you are running the collar too loose. If you put the collar on tite, and the setting on high, it ought to knock yr dog right off his feet with a yelp. Im not advocating this, but suggest tightening up the collar a notch or two and check his response at a lower setting. Cheers!

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LabHunter
3 hours ago, mcgreg said:

My idea is that you are running the collar too loose. If you put the collar on tite, and the setting on high, it ought to knock yr dog right off his feet with a yelp. Im not advocating this, but suggest tightening up the collar a notch or two and check his response at a lower setting. Cheers!

 

I appreciate the response, but that's definitely not it.  She'll respond to it if we're just walking along, even at a low setting.  If she's out after deer or something, she just doesn't care, even at the highest setting.  She's just got a high pain tolerance & a lot of drive I think.  Now that she's a few years old, she has started to mellow out a bit..

 

Trev

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max2
13 hours ago, LabHunter said:

 

  She's just got a high pain tolerance & a lot of drive I think.  Now that she's a few years old, she has started to mellow out a bit..

 

Trev

She must have a tenacious prey drive . I think the only way to break a dog with this much drive would be to take them to deer on heavy long line.  She's not feel'n it as her mind is in override for game.  pretty amazing creatures . ( just my humble opinion :))

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