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EllieGSP

Fox 16ga choke work, or not...

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oak stob

Never experienced any spreader loads endangering pups but with the wrong mix of all loaded ingredients and/or poor distance choices, there is not reason a golden BB could not turn into.....an accident.

I would trip to placing blame on more than just the spreader load used but, that is just me.

As before, pattern to see and pattern at varied distances...just to see.

 

I will say that spreaders are not my cuppa as I have to fiddle in remembering when to slide ‘em in(:() but thru the years one gets brain cramps that suggests some what-ifs.

So, we try.....I found at ‘cock distances, where patterning was about width, that spreaders could provide one answer and the inserts work as easily and as well as anything I could cobble up.

 

Fo this fella, I don’t know.....just an opinion.

 

 

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salmontogue
30 minutes ago, lee sykes said:

I would open the right barrel to i.c. and shoot it for a season or two before opening up the left. You may find that will work fine for you. My 20 gauge Parker that I have shot for the last fifteen seasons was choked I.C. and Full from the factory in 1911.  I have found it quite satisfactory.  I have other guns with choke tubes and I still use that one the most. 

 

I have a Parker high grade 20g that came from the factory bored IC and F on a special order in the twenties.  I am the second owner of this gun, it was left to me by a dear friend who knew an awful lot about wingshooting.  I suspect Lee's gun was originally purchased by an equally savvy shooter.  I shot a flying turkey with it on opening day of the fall turkey season in 2016.  Bird fell like a stone.

 

I have two 20g Ithaca NID in G2 and G4.  Both are Orlen adjusted to IC/IM and IC/F.  Also a 28g modified to IC/IM.  All are beautiful guns that appear as new but have appropriate choking.  Both 20g were originally IM/F and the 28 was F/F.  I would make these choke modifications again on almost any gun with adequate barrel wall thickness.

 

Perk

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Zoli 16ga.
13 minutes ago, salmontogue said:

More than 50% in my patterning were range limited and displayed pattern holes and uneven shot spread along with fewer hits on the paper than expected leading me to believe there were flyers.

 

I've had nowhere near those results with my hand rolled loads. I've loaded with 7625, 800x, 700x and unique. 700x gave my least desirable results, but would still not blame it's pattern for a miss.

I pattern at 30 yards btw. on 48" paper, and count every hole.

 

 

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salmontogue
4 minutes ago, Zoli 16ga. said:

 

I've had nowhere near those results with my hand rolled loads. I've loaded with 7625, 800x, 700x and unique. 700x gave my least desirable results, but would still not blame it's pattern for a miss.

I pattern at 30 yards btw. on 48" paper, and count every hole.

 

 

 I have used 48, 60 and 72 inch depending on what was available as mill ends from several local paper mills.  I pattern at 15, 20, 25 and 30 yards in my sand pit.  I have used a variety of combinations of handloads and factory ammo.  I greatly prefer non-spreaders in properly choked guns.  Load adjustments in conventional shells can also change patterns and density, something I prefer.

 

I'm not suggesting my opinions are the only way.  I am suggesting they work best for me and make me more comfortable shooting over dogs that I love.

 

Perk

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Zoli 16ga.
1 hour ago, gunsrus said:

A Collector will want it original . Remember they only made around 2400 Philly A Grade 16's . How many are left ?

My first A Grade Fox I had opened up to IC and IM . Left the chambers original and shoot only RST's . I shoot that gun a lot . I would not open the chokes any more than that . My sense is that people that buy these guns prefer tighter choke maybe for out west . Anyway spreaders will open my chokes for grouse here in the East .

Almost all of my other Foxes that I've restocked , I've kept the barrels original primarily for resale . 

You have to ask , is this gun retiring with you and resale is not an option or are you looking to make money down the road ?

Anyway that is one fine gun and valued around $5500 + . I haven't seen one that nice in a while . Enjoy ! 

 

Ok then....what Al said....lol

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Recoil Rob

I may be wrong, I don't have any more knowledge about Fox guns than I read in Macintosh's book, but as far as I know Fox guns are not marked with original chokes. In fact I believe only Ithaca did that with numbers from 0-4 stamped on the flats.

Unless you have a copy of the original records you have no way of knowing if the chokes you have now are original. The extra full is likely original but perhaps the IM barrel was already opened.

My point is, pattern it and open it up to what you want, use it well and when it comes time to sell, it already will have usable chokes.

If it were mine though, I wouldn't touch the chambers, that will certainly decrease value.

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Chukarman

Alter to chokes to work for you or sell the gun.

 

I have a Fox 16 bored SK1& SK2 that I have been shooting since 1990 and it has never let me down. It was bored tight ad tighter. but that changed immediately as I bought it. Go ahead.

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Swampy 16

My 2 cents. Pattern it with everything you can get your hands on, including all manufactured spreaders and hand loaded spreaders first. I look at the 16 gauge Fox as the one of the finest of all sxs when it comes to balance, weight and all the other factors that make a great sxs a great sxs. To me, as a grouse hunter the A grade Fox 16 gauge is a holy grail gun. I could never see myself parting with it especially if it came cheap. This would be my dream gun that would be the last to leave the safe so I’d open them if I couldn’t get good results the way it is. I doubt it hurts resale because the guy that wouldn’t alter an original would pay for one that someone already did. I would however have Briley do it. This way I’d you do sell it at least someone competent did it. That’s a heck of a nice gun. I’d shoot it.

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tut

Lots of options being given.  My vote would be to join the Fox Gun Collectors Association ($30 per year).   The membership will provide you one free serial number look up and you can see exactly what the configuration was of that gun when it originally left the factory and who it was sent to.  It will provide the original chokes, barrel length, measurements and date it was made, weight etc.  I have an AE Fox 16 I recently purchased that came from the factory with Cylinder and Full chokes and the gun was made in 1918.  IMO a perfect upland gun ordered by someone in 1918 who had to be an upland bird hunter.   My gun had a cracked buttstock so its out for a new stock to be made and I'll have it (hopefully) next year. 

 

If the gun is original condition as it left the factory I'd leave it as is and try various loads and see if you can get where you want to be from the pattern perspective.  If its already been altered from how it left the factory then I'd open the chokes to what you need/want.  if you want to alter the chambers to extend them that most likely can be done, however knowing how the gun left the factory might provide you a clue on whether those chambers can be lengthened.  I'd say if the gun was built with number 4 weight barrels, the chambers should't be extended because those are the lightest weight barrels Fox offered and as such they can be pretty thin already and you may not have the barrel wall thickness in front of the chambers to safely extend them to 2 3/4".

 

Here's a link if you want to join the association:

 

https://www.foxcollectors.com/sign-up

 

 

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EllieGSP
18 hours ago, Marc Ret said:

What did you use to determine how the gun's choked?

 

Put the gun on paper before you do anything to it. You can do a lot with differing loads (aside from spreaders) before reaming irreplaceable metal from the chokes. 

 

This was the plan.   We have a metal patterning board at the local range and I've been reading up on paint vs grease vs paper for setting it up.  I don't think many people use it as dictated by the steel pellet pits and slug marks:-)

 

I measured the choked with a hole bore gauge.  Right (0.656 Bore to 0.673 = 0.017 Constriction, MOD) and Left (0.656 Bore to 0.683 = 0.027 Constriction, Full-ish).

 

I like 'WyoBirds' idea of the fiber wads in some 2.5 hulls.  Anyone have some low pressure starting suggestions?  

I'll definitely shoot and pattern with a few loads before making steel changes.   There is a lot of time between now and the start of fall bird season....

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Swampy 16

Any hull with a flat bottom will create a spreader effect. Call BPI they have a slew of options. Also check out 16 gauge society, which I’ve been meaning to join. They can also be a big help from what I’m told.

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Zoli 16ga.
1 hour ago, Swampy 16 said:

Also check out 16 gauge society, which I’ve been meaning to join. They can also be a big help from what I’m told

 

They have a 16ga. low pressure reloading group. I may have downloaded some recipes if you would like some. I don't use them myself. 

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studdog

If your going to shoot the gun, open it up to something useful.  Skeet or IC and Mod or light mod.  Enjoy! I own an original 1926 Fox XE 16 in perfect condition.  It's my go to bird gun choked skeet and light mod.  I enjoy it all season. It's of no use to me when I'm dead!

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studdog

Caution on spreader loads over dogs!  I've patterned them and they throw flyer pellets out of pattern.  I'd never shoot them over dogs.

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Zoli 16ga.

What brand were the spreaders? Commercial or hand rolled?

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