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quailguy

Military Use of Shotguns

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quailguy

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-us-military-loves-shotguns-27897?page=0%2C1

 

Interesting piece re military use of shotguns. Back when I was in the USN, one unit I was in had a number of Model 12s. We shot them frequently; I really enjoyed target shooting and was good at it. Most people seemed to be afraid of them.  

Nice Benelli the Marine in the photo is shooting, a model 104. Never heard of it?? That shotshell reloader he is wearing would be great for dove shooting!

Anyone shoot military shotguns? 

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OldSarge

In 1st SFG in the 90’s we had a bunch of old model 12s. The were pretty much worn out so I spent a fair amount of time fixing them between range sessions. Usually guys would bring their own 870s and shoot up the military 00buck. Here is a pic of my breacher. 

16574E14-D4E7-4343-8ADF-98215A9755FC.jpeg

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quailguy
1 hour ago, OldSarge said:

Here is a pic of my breacher. 

Never leave the "office" without it!

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Ted Schefelbein

A friend was in Baghdad during the first Iraq war. He had a Mossberg 500 12 gauge that was loaded with the normal policeman’s cocktail.

He was in Special Forces, spoke fluent Farsi, and Arabic, and was on the ground a week before we saw it start on the 5:00 news.

He said the Mossberg was good as gold. He used it to good effect. Not a gun guy, when he came home he returned to Stanford, finished his doctorate in Mid East studies of some sort, and perished in a scuba diving accident.

I wondered if slugs were something that were forbidden to use in combat, and he told me “Yea, probably. They work pretty good though”.

 

I always liked that answer.

 

Best,

Ted

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Cold Iron

I retired from the Navy, never did see any Model 12's, we had Ithaca 37's. Until they took them away from us along with the M14's and 45's. Don't get me started. They replaced the 37's with Mossberg 500's and 870's. Most of us avoided the 500 if we could. About the time I retired 20 years ago they started to bring the Benelli's in.

 

The Ithaca 37 was the first shotgun of the then newly formed Navy SEALs in the early 60's. Chief James Watson had China Lake Weapons Station build a a pistol grip on his duckbill 37 for him. The original blueprints of the duckbill sold not long ago for quite a bit, the duckbill and development was moved to CRANE not long after development in China Lake.

 

SEAL Chief Crane liked and used 000 buckshot in Vietnam, and the duckbill 37. Said the enemy never complained about either after being shot and it worked well in the jungle. Last I knew he is still alive.

 

DSC01975.jpg?w=2000&ssl=1

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gunsrus

Now there's a man I'd love to spend a few hours around a camp fire with . Imagine the stories he could tell ? 

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Samuel Hoggson

Interesting topic.  No pre-Heller case had greater impact on federal perceptions of 2A than United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939).  The case involved interstate movement of a short barrel shotgun.  The plaintiff died during the proceedings, and the court's decision reflected ignorance (willful, or otherwise) on the part of plaintiff's attorneys.  They did not present evidence that short barreled shotguns had been used by some US military branch.......something an average 14 year old kid might have produced in those days.

 

The primary holding - only weapons that have a reasonable relationship to the effectiveness of a well-regulated militia under the Second Amendment are free from government regulation - was turned upside down by the Heller court.

 

Anyway, yes.  Trench and riot guns are fun.......NFA length or not.  Many had choke tubes installed.  

 

  
 

 

 

 

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Rockdoc

During WWI the allied use of shotguns in trench warfare was so effective it caused the Germans to issue diplomatic complaints, to wit: “it is especially forbidden to employ arms, projections, or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering” I guess their use of poison gas and flamethrowers didn’t count. During WWII the bomber machine gunners were trained to lead their targets using clay targets and shotguns.

Steve

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SelbyLowndes

A guy from my home town 'invented' the use of the trench gun in WW-1.  I have an old local  newspaper article about it.   I had heard that the krauts complained it was too barbaric...SelbyLowndes

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kgb

There's a claim the two most attention-getting sounds in the dark are a 1911 slide closing and a shell being racked into a M97. I could understand making water at the sound of ANY repeater being racked or even a DA revolver's hammer coming to rest at full cock, but a 97 should top the list. 

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fishvik
11 minutes ago, kgb said:

There's a claim the two most attention-getting sounds in the dark are a 1911 slide closing and a shell being racked into a M97. I could understand making water at the sound of ANY repeater being racked or even a DA revolver's hammer coming to rest at full cock, but a 97 should top the list. 

I've heard a similar claim from law enforcement that if you want to get everybody's undivided attention at a civil disturbance, just rack in a round in an 870.

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MUSTANGER7

During my second tour in Vietnam I was a rifle company commander (69/70) and I carried a Stevens along with my 45, during this time company commanders, platoon commanders, senior NCO's in rifle companies carried them, for some reason not all battalions did not have the same policy. Often the point man would be given one depending on the terrain carried one that was his platoon leaders or platoon sgt's, they were awesome in thick cover. Our ammo was 00 buck, could easily tell when the point made contact.

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sneem

In RVN with the 101st the point man had a "body guard"" we called the drag or drag man. His job was to back up the point man in case he got in trouble. Many times the guy walking drag carried a 12 gauge. Mostly Mossbergs but I seem to remember one guy with an Ithaca 37 but I could be wrong.

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MUSTANGER7
1 hour ago, sneem said:

In RVN with the 101st the point man had a "body guard"" we called the drag or drag man. His job was to back up the point man in case he got in trouble. Many times the guy walking drag carried a 12 gauge. Mostly Mossbergs but I seem to remember one guy with an Ithaca 37 but I could be wrong.

The old days! sometimes their like they were yesterday! We always said "you can always tell a paratrooper but not much"  Semper Fi

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shorebird

My father served with the 25th ID in Vietnam as a platoon Sergeant. He carried a shotgun on patrol and ambush. He said the M-16s jammed too much. 

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