Jump to content
FRIENDLY REMINDER ABOUT HUNTING REPORTS/TOPICS... Read more... ×
Scar

Overlaying "Here" command with collar tone

Recommended Posts

Scar

My new pup is a long runner and I think I want to overlay the here command with the tone function on my collar.  Any downside to doing this?

 

I plan to just add the tone every time I use here in hopes that when she's 300+ out on windy days I can bring here back more efficiently.  Any thoughts on the best way to accomplish this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
E.Young

Both my dogs are trained to this and it is a great tool. It keeps me from shouting, that's for sure. If the collar is on, I almost always use the tone unless the dogs is <40yds and I can use a regular voice - I am not much for shouting. 

 

I taught here/tone and wait at the same time using a 30' lead when both dogs were pretty young.

 

Both dogs associate the amount of here-ness of the call with tone length. If I hold it for probably 10+ seconds, they'll come all the way to heel, and if I just give them a few beeps, 2-3 seconds, they'll pull back to 10-20ish yards and cast back out another direction. I didn't train this behavior at all, but I ain't complaining now that I know how to handle them with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oatmeal

 

I do this and I now feel I'd be entirely lost without it. When I have a pup and train 'here,' I put the e-collar with beep on. With the administered command I give a beep-beep.

 

After the command is understood, I put the dog on a 200' line in a field (like a soccer field or such) and let the dog go, periodically giving 'here' and the beep. Have the dog come in. Then, stop giving a verbal command and just use the beep, potentially reminding the dog with the rope if needed.

 

Eventually, in the field the command relaxes a bit, or I get sloppy or whatever (this may be where you want to switch paths from me given that some prefer immobile structure in their training while I'm more of a hack). It evolves to being a beep or a beep-beep means come and see me, attention, turn to recognize me. The dog can recall or find me, even 100yds or more away, and if we're in understanding and he can see me and vice-versa, then he can continue on hunting as long as we're in acknowledgment: a full recall isn't necessary.Typically this means he runs within a radius to note my forward motion and begins to continue 'in the pocket.' If the beep is instead continuous, holding the beep button down relentlessly, it means come all the way to me, ie. emergency. I train this in the field as above also, but emergency sees much less use.

 

I have no idea how this gets ingrained other than I run the dog several days a week and use the beep-beep attention command virtually every time. Emergency is rare but it comes with the other - the dog catches on pretty quickly. I hunt with an astro and this also means I know generally where the dog is, so I know what ridges I should be inspecting for recall, or the partial recall. 

 

I find this as essential as anything I train, personally. I can keep a dog from going over a ridge and down a canyon I don't want to hunt, or away from a distant herd of elk or whatever. I used to use a whistle but no whistle seemed loud enough for a dog with wheels, and I hated fumbling for it and blowing it while out of breath. Once you have it, it can be impressive, too. I turned a dog working a distant hill at 800-900yds to recall and redirection, and this seems to blow some minds. I can't imagine not having it. Also, one can sometimes otherwise be going hunting wherever the dog ends up, and for a pup with wheels that could be to a covey point 2 miles down a canyon and over a mesa. That can be too much!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scar
19 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

 

I do this and I now feel I'd be entirely lost without it. When I have a pup and train 'here,' I put the e-collar with beep on. With the administered command I give a beep-beep.

 

After the command is understood, I put the dog on a 200' line in a field (like a soccer field or such) and let the dog go, periodically giving 'here' and the beep. Have the dog come in. Then, stop giving a verbal command and just use the beep, potentially reminding the dog with the rope if needed.

 

Eventually, in the field the command relaxes a bit, or I get sloppy or whatever (this may be where you want to switch paths from me given that some prefer immobile structure in their training while I'm more of a hack). It evolves to being a beep or a beep-beep means come and see me, attention, turn to recognize me. The dog can recall or find me, even 100yds or more away, and if we're in understanding and he can see me and vice-versa, then he can continue on hunting as long as we're in acknowledgment: a full recall isn't necessary.Typically this means he runs within a radius to note my forward motion and begins to continue 'in the pocket.' If the beep is instead continuous, holding the beep button down relentlessly, it means come all the way to me, ie. emergency. I train this in the field as above also, but emergency sees much less use.

 

I have no idea how this gets ingrained other than I run the dog several days a week and use the beep-beep attention command virtually every time. Emergency is rare but it comes with the other - the dog catches on pretty quickly. I hunt with an astro and this also means I know generally where the dog is, so I know what ridges I should be inspecting for recall, or the partial recall. 

 

I find this as essential as anything I train, personally. I can keep a dog from going over a ridge and down a canyon I don't want to hunt, or away from a distant herd of elk or whatever. I used to use a whistle but no whistle seemed loud enough for a dog with wheels, and I hated fumbling for it and blowing it while out of breath. Once you have it, it can be impressive, too. I turned a dog working a distant hill at 800-900yds to recall and redirection, and this seems to blow some minds. I can't imagine not having it. Also, one can sometimes otherwise be going hunting wherever the dog ends up, and for a pup with wheels that could be to a covey point 2 miles down a canyon and over a mesa. That can be too much!

 

 

 

This, very much this!

 

What collar system should I buy?  I run GPS also and have an older collar without vibration or tone so I need to purchase a collar to make this work.

 

BTW, thank you so much for confirming that this is a realistic solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cold Iron

I have done this with my last 2 dogs but with the vibrate function, I don't want even the tone sound when hunting. The real advantage became evident when my last dog was getting older and went deaf. I could recall him even though he could not hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
john mcg

Yup---as soon as the new pup's neck is bigger, I will do this as I have in the past.

 

Whether a jolt, beep or buzz--I am convinced it is the sensations at the neck that get attention. My experience has been that once they know the jolt as a training medium--they transition and react just as readily to the beep or buzz--other than those more extreme times when ya really need to wake them up.

 

Not sure if that will help, but I hope it will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
E.Young

Yup - what Oatmeal said.

 

The absolute best application to me is that both my dogs will absolutely stop on a dime and head my direction with any beep at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WMassGriff

Vibration and/or Whistle for my recall. Actually added it when recalling by voice command on long line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oatmeal
46 minutes ago, Scar said:

 

This, very much this!

 

What collar system should I buy?  I run GPS also and have an older collar without vibration or tone so I need to purchase a collar to make this work.

 

BTW, thank you so much for confirming that this is a realistic solution.

 

This is a good question and I may not have an adequate answer. I'm at least a decade behind with my electronics. I have an older tritronics g3 'trashbreaker' system and an astro 220. It works fine, the beep is adequate, and the e-collar extended range I think has helped me because my dogs have generally been powerful. I am also usually in rolling or hilly country with potentially more limited transmission.

 

My feelings are that any recognizable beep is fine, though (as Cold Iron noted just above) I would prefer a quieter one so that it doesn't project. The tone is right next to the dog's ear so I'm not too concerned with him hearing it. I'd go somewhere you could maybe look at a few units? Something additional: I've always felt my e-collar system was also waaay too overpowered for my setters - the higher correction levels are never ever used or needed, and I'm afraid of simply having that power in my pocket. It might be fine for snake breaking or something but it's otherwise a liability for me.

 

I'm likely about to move to either an alpha or, more likely, an astro 430 unit so I can overlay onX maps. I actually posted something in the electronics subforum because I don't really know what is current. So, for an e-collar, let me know what you decide - I might get one too!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flush

I've taught quite a few dogs, as have my hunting buddies, that the tone means "come".

It seems to be very easy to teach and dogs seem to pick up on it quickly. In general it's a very good way to go if you run bigger going dogs, prevents a lot of yelling and the uncertainty if the dog heard you when they are way out there, especially if it is windy.

 

There is really no downside that I am aware of when it comes to hunting.

 

There is a potential indirect downside that can apply, mainly only if you field trial, but I suppose it could be a minor issue in a hunting situation too.

If you religiously use the tone function to indicate to a dog to come in (as opposed to a secondary method like yelling and/or a whistle etc) some dogs, especially really hard going ones, can get conditioned that basically unless they get toned, they don't HAVE to come in. In a trial of course you can't use a collar and the tone function so SOME dogs may think because they aren't getting toned, they don't have to come in, and that can obviously be a problem. In a hunting situation if you have hard going big running dog that is completely conditioned to come in on the tone alone, and then you decide to run without a collar or the collar dies or whatever, you could have a minor problem as well but if you are only talking 300-400yards or so I wouldn't even worry about it.

 

Overall it's a good way to go and it's easy to teach.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jfwhit

I use this. The tone on the Alpha is not loud.  I can barely hear it myself. But my dogs come running.  I use the vibrate to get them to leave something alone or even to turn.  I hardly use either by the way.  When my Brittany crosses onto private land, a vibrate turns him back under the fence and he continues on.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaks

I used tone on my old system. Vibrate was a warning that correction was coming. I got a dogtra T&B set up this year and it does not have a tone and I definitely do not want train to come on locate so I will be using the vibrate for recall on my new pup. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×