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E.Young

Slow Down a Dog?

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E.Young

My younger setter, 16mos, is a great dog, or has the makings of one - he's obedient, crazy drive, insane endurance, and really steady on point... if he doesn't outrun his nose. And that's a big IF. 

 

For the first 1-3hrs he will outrun his nose, running full-tilt, dead sprint right through a cover busting birds, and THEN turn back on the scent. Once he wears himself out, he slows down and works better, but I don't know how to slow him down. I've pulled his range in A LOT (from 300-500yds down to swinging back to check in after ranging to max 100-120yds and mostly running 30-60yds) but he's still pedal-to-the-metal. 

 

For anyone who's experienced this, does he just need more, more, more exposure to wild birds to resolve this and slow his roll, or are there any tips/tricks for the meantime? He follows my older setter nicely when she starts getting birdy, but if she's just out working and not visibly birdy, he just barrels through and does not follow her lead. 

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paul frey

Sorry, I only train labs and have plenty of training birds available.  If we come across a dog that ranges to far we will take a dead bird and throw it in cover right in front of us.  Call the dog back and quarter it into the area of the dead bird.  Dog starts to learn that the birds are found right in front of the hunters.  kind of makes them work closer to us. 

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MTRookie76

It sounds like you got lucky and got a really good dog. He's only 16 months old, he will mature and figure things out. 

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Mike da Carpenter

My GSP turns 1 today.  He is so full of “spunk” that I find an area I’m sure wouldn’t hold birds and let him run off a couple miles.  That tends to slow him down (if there is such a thing).  He does do much better after burning off some steam though.  I’m sure with time, he will grow into his role without having to waste time working off the high strung energy.  Sounds as though you are in the same boat.

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Curt
16 minutes ago, E.Young said:

My younger setter, 16mos, is a great dog, or has the makings of one - he's obedient, crazy drive, insane endurance, and really steady on point... if he doesn't outrun his nose. And that's a big IF. 

 

For the first 1-3hrs he will outrun his nose, running full-tilt, dead sprint right through a cover busting birds, and THEN turn back on the scent. Once he wears himself out, he slows down and works better, but I don't know how to slow him down. I've pulled his range in A LOT (from 300-500yds down to swinging back to check in after ranging to max 100-120yds and mostly running 30-60yds) but he's still pedal-to-the-metal. 

 

For anyone who's experienced this, does he just need more, more, more exposure to wild birds to resolve this and slow his roll, or are there any tips/tricks for the meantime? He follows my older setter nicely when she starts getting birdy, but if she's just out working and not visibly birdy, he just barrels through and does not follow her lead. 

This is part of the problem I'm having with my 19 month old pup now too.  I don't have a solution so I'm going to get professional help to civilize him.  I'll be watching the replies on this one to see if anyone has a fix for big wheels.

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E.Young

 

This dog came from Three Dogs' first litter. He's a bomb little pup, but doesn't like to pump the brakes unless a scent (or even bird itself, as was the case Saturday) practically bowls him over. Once he gets a good whiff, he'll slow down and hunt - he'll pick up singles after the fact, but he will outrun his nose and blow through the covey on the first pass. 

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dgfavor

I've seen guys slow down hard chargers with an "octopus" - basically a handful (8 I guess if its an octopus) or more 18"-24" black rubber bungies all connected on one end via an oval threaded link that also contains a single snap to attach to the dogs collar...so you've got 8 bands closely united on one end and 8 ends free, flopping, and generally disruptive on the other.  Obviously remove the metal hooks out of both ends.  Doesn't snag brush, get wedged, etc. like other drags sometimes used.

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Shawn F

Is that the veterinarian from California in your picture?

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boutdoors4

Sounds like most pups like to run till they burn off excess energy, my pup Sadie is the same way. She runs fast and hard for a few hours till she slows down.

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Cass

He'll outgrow it, he's a puppy. 

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Chukarman
On 11/19/2018 at 11:28 AM, dgfavor said:

I've seen guys slow down hard chargers with an "octopus" - basically a handful (8 I guess if its an octopus) or more 18"-24" black rubber bungies all connected on one end via an oval threaded link that also contains a single snap to attach to the dogs collar...so you've got 8 bands closely united on one end and 8 ends free, flopping, and generally disruptive on the other.  Obviously remove the metal hooks out of both ends.  Doesn't snag brush, get wedged, etc. like other drags sometimes used.

 

I've used a harness with a couple lengths of welding cable (one length on each side - dragging) to slow a dog that I was training. Problem is, it just makes them stronger and when you take off the cables - OFF HE GOES. Better to work with birds planted closer in to get him to start the search at close range and to teach your dog to HANDLE, which gives a fair amount of control so that you can 'bend' him 10 to 2 - side to side. This will limit his distance some, but not his speed.

 

Or get a horse.

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Curt
12 minutes ago, Chukarman said:

 

I've used a harness with a couple lengths of welding cable (one length on each side - dragging) to slow a dog that I was training. Problem is, it just makes them stronger and when you take off the cables - OFF HE GOES. Better to work with birds planted closer in to get him to start the search at close range and to teach your dog to HANDLE, which gives a fair amount of control so that you can 'bend' him 10 to 2 - side to side. This will limit his distance some, but not his speed.

 

Or get a horse.

Yep, this pup of mine has the harness and a 6-8' length of welding cable set up.  It slows him some but it's not the final solution.  Like you said, take it off and he's off to the races again.  One time he even jumped in a beaver pond and went swimming with that rig on him, scared the hell out of me.

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JJT

My llewellin was like this his second season about 18 months old. He ran  full throttle raising cane. If I could hunt him 2 days in a row he did better. Now that he is 4 he paces himself much better and is hunting you can see his tail is much more antimated when he is hunting as opposed to running to run:) 

 

if if you have a tracking system it is interesting to look at a dogs  average speed for a hunt. My pup used to average around 10 mph which I thought was great he now averages around 7 mph and he finds and points way more birds LOL 

 

they do mature with enough exposure but it can be frustrating, chukar hills wear them down quicker if you have that option:) 

 

still a pup but sounds like a good one! 

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Back Woods

Sounds like you have step one of the process under control, range. Step two would be to correct pup every single time you catch it running over a bird, intentional or not. This is the transition from yard work bird drills to wild bird workouts. It should only take a few sharp and precise corrections before you see pup start to change up it's approach. Meaning pup should start to tailor it's speed to match his nose to avoid corrections. Teach pup that running over birds displeases you and brings about a correction and doing it right brings on lavish praise. 

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Ray Gubernat

I'd teach the dog to "bend".  When the dog goes out to your preferred range(in THAT type of cover) hit the whistle to turn the dog...and if it does not...tap, tap, tap on the e-collar until it does and thenhavie the dog run across your front and, at the appropriate point, turn it again.  I like to do this drill, initially in a wide, birdless field that has a defined edge(like a woodline) on both sides.   If you are consistent with your cues, the dog will, very soon, start to turn on the whistle and fairly soon after that will start to turn when you are about to blow your whistle.  Then you know yougot the dog thinking and doing.

 

Planting birds close will also tend to take the wild run out of the dog.  If the dog runs past a bird...call it back in and make it hunt in front of you.  A "hunt dead" or "hunt close" command will come in handy for this, if you have installed one.

 

Another thing you can do is do some "steady to flush" work with the dog.  As it runs by an area...pop a remote trap when the dog can see the bird lift. If it does not stop and stand...correct(GENTLY but firmly) and then bring the dog back into the area where it should have stopped, style it up and make it stand there for a good while.

 

Since it is a setter and a very young and impressionable one at that...be careful with  negative pressure around birds.  If you get your dog to the point where it will reliably  honor a wild flush,  you can start bringing the pressure when it blows through a covey.   If not...be very careful, very measured an... be firm...but gentle... with any corrections around birds.   If at all possible, one you have th4e dog stopped... use your hands on the dog to settle it, style it and stroke it up rather than electronics.  You can "feel" how the dog is responding with your hands.  You cannot "feel'  with the button of the e-collar.  The dog can feel your touch , and be reassured by it as well. 

 

A sixteen month old setter is still very much a puppy.  It has a lot to experience  and  a lot to learn.  Be a teacher and a friend, as much or more that a disciplinarian.  Puppies are going to do all sorts of things, all sorts of ways.  Guide them in the direction you wan them to go...encourage the behaviors you want and ignore or discourage the ones you don't.  If you are consistent, persistent and patient...the dog will figure it out.

 

 

RayG

 

 

 

 

 

 

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