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Quig

Backing training

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Quig

I’m going to start teaching my pup to back, any advice/methods? 

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dogrunner

A guy I used in the past had a backer that laid flat and remotely he would trigger it. Seemed to work good. 

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Chukarman

USUALLY breaking your dog steady to wing and shot will bring backing along with the package with very little if any extra work. If the dog is pointing and holding reliably it should be pretty easy to do the backing training with any of the traditional methods.

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WMassGriff

Would have passed my first SH Test today if my dog would back. Not his fault as I haven't trained him on that and apparently its not a natural instinct with him. Anyway it was a good experience and definitely would be interested in hearing some tips or guidance as to good training videos, etc.

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dgfavor

Natural backing works best for my level of training abilities! ;)

  

My little 5mo. Barley pup today giving Jane props on a hungarian find today...birds already exited:

 

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Hal Standish
7 hours ago, WMassGriff said:

Would have passed my first SH Test today if my dog would back. Not his fault as I haven't trained him on that and apparently its not a natural instinct with him. Anyway it was a good experience and definitely would be interested in hearing some tips or guidance as to good training videos, etc.

 

For those that test, Pointy, spaniel, retriever does not matter. Here is the guaranteed way to pass a test. Train at the level beyond the test level that you would be entering. Personally I would skip senior level tests and only train and condition for the Master level.

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Hal Standish
On 12/4/2018 at 3:46 PM, Chukarman said:

USUALLY breaking your dog steady to wing and shot will bring backing along with the package with very little if any extra work. If the dog is pointing and holding reliably it should be pretty easy to do the backing training with any of the traditional methods.

 

Breaking to wing and shot has many benefits and as Chukarman mention that is one them...

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Ray Gubernat

Quig -

 

Which ever methodology you end up using to "teach"  your youngster to back, I strongly suggest that at each "backing situation" , there be a bird there which gets flushed and at least cap gunned for the dog.   It is important that the dog know that there IS a bird there.

 

I typically introduce the field portion of the  backing drill using a backing dummy and a remote launcher, but if I have a good steady dog, I might use that dog along with a remote launcher, but usually not at first.  A backing dummy won't break and rush in... even a good, steady dog  can mess up.

 

At later stages of backing training, I will also toss a pigeon while flushing, or walking back to the dog... AFTER  the trap bird has been launched. 

 

 This reinforces the concept of steadiness until physically released or collared.

 

RayG

 

 

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406dn

Sadly, I've had dogs that were broke to wing and shot but were not good at backing. The two I have in mind preferred to blink a back, so that they could go find their own bird. Upon realizing that I was working dogs individually most all of the time,  that was a big part of why they backed poorly.

 

So now I work dogs in braces or more routinely. It has been easier for me by having use of a horse and good numbers of wild birds. Whenever any dog goes on point,,,if possible, I get the other dog(s) into the area so that they a have backing opportunity. If they don't back on their own, I whoa them once they have sight of the pointing dog.

 

Most dogs will start backing on their own volition pretty quickly once they realize a dog on point equals birds. It is also easier to get a backing dog to stand for the flush and shot, while they are in the process of getting finished around birds. The absence of scent, the birds leaving and the shot coming from a greater distance diminishes the temptation a bit.

 

IMO a dog should back from whatever distance they first see the other dog. At times that can be pretty close. But out in the great wide open, it is often a dog sees the dog from a hundred yards away. When they honor the point willingly from a good distance, the chances of them wanting to steal point go down quite a bit.

 

Rowdy and Sunny honored the other likely hundreds of times. This time Sunny has the find. 

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This is Sunny backing Lola. 

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Quig

Thanks for the replies. I have a cutout dog and two launchers in front. I brought her around, stopped her with the belly collar. As I went in to flush, getting ahold of the launcher and ecollar remotes, she styled up, as if she new a bird would be launched. 

 

She was steady to both birds, released, I missed the check cord and she checked the launchers and cutout and moved on.

 

How important is the shot after the flush?

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Ray Gubernat
On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 1:29 PM, Quig said:

Thanks for the replies. I have a cutout dog and two launchers in front. I brought her around, stopped her with the belly collar. As I went in to flush, getting ahold of the launcher and ecollar remotes, she styled up, as if she new a bird would be launched. 

 

She was steady to both birds, released, I missed the check cord and she checked the launchers and cutout and moved on.

 

How important is the shot after the flush?

Quig -

 

I would bet that she DID know.to me, the fact that she styled up in anticipation of the launch...is a very good sign that she is WITH the program. 

 

Rinse and repeat. as someone once said.   

 

Personally , I don't think the shot after the flush is all that critical.  If you are going to trial or test the dog, you will want to test it and  proof it to the highest extent possible, so yes to the shot as a general rule.  For hunting...not so much, IMO.

 

Honestly, I would rather have the dog stand and after the flush (shot or no shot), with style.  So, after the flush I  go to the dog and style it up, stroke it and push it from the back,  into the planted bird scenario, to encourage it to get  even tighter.    If the dog has moved...even a little... I like to physically pick up and re-position the dog and then stroke it up and style it up...again to reinforce. 

 

RayG

 

 

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Quig

We’ve been working at it lately. Here’s a couple of pictures.

 

This is Aspen, she’s getting it and is very steady to flush.

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Quig

http://browndrake.net/UJ/resize/resize.php

 

Back in the sorghum is Louie, he stopped on his own, and was steady to wing. He’s going to be 12 in March. I was surprised he stopped, he hasn’t done it in the Grouse woods and busted some birds this year.

 

I usually hunt alone with just one dog, so while I’ve trained them to back, they seldom get the opportunity. I intend to add another dog soon so hopefully they have a chance to use it. 

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Quig

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blanked

what I do is teach dog to stop by the ecollar knick.   this is a process

then I teach to stand still wilth bird in the air and launcher.  no scent involved.   reinforce with ecollar knick if needed.  from here on out a knick to stand still means bird in the air as a cue 

then I use an auto backer from lion country with a pigeon in a remote launcher   .    work dog no scent to the auto backer.  remote auto backer pops up when your sure your dog is looking in the direction.  if he doesn't stop launch the pigeon.  bird in air should stop from previous training.  if not knick him to stop.  make him stand with the auto backer poped up.   walk to  the auto backer and launch another bird. make him stand for a few minutes

 

this teaches him the dog on point means there are birds   

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