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Shawn F

Setter Derby

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Shawn F

Wondering if anyone has bred to the Yukon conrelius derby yet?  Can't remember when last a setter Derby was competitive on the major derby circuit other than an Erin setter?  Maybe he will be the one to breed to rather than breeding to a dog that you have to "wait on" ?

 

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MTRookie76

I'd have to think there would be a number of Setter guys kicking the tires. He is going to have his work cut out for himself this week at the GA Derby Ch.

 

 

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Shawn F
35 minutes ago, MTRookie76 said:

I'd have to think there would be a number of Setter guys kicking the tires. He is going to have his work cut out for himself this week at the GA Derby Ch.

 

 

 

Kicking the tires?  The mere fact the dog is still on the string should have setter breeders wearing the tires bald by now!

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Flush

 

 Wow, that is a BIG derby stake!!

 

 

not familiar with Caladen shag, at least not yet. The fact that Ike is running it does say a lot though.

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406dn

I'm grateful that it's not me in the judicial saddle. Judging derbies is already fifty shades of gray without having a hundred plus dogs to look at. At least it's all age so you can cull more of them based on their ground race.

 

As nice as a derby championship is,,,I put more value on a dog's career once it is in broke stakes.

 

If Ike is messing with it,, it's a nice dog. 

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Craig Doherty
34 minutes ago, 406dn said:

I'm grateful that it's not me in the judicial saddle. Judging derbies is already fifty shades of gray without having a hundred plus dogs to look at. At least it's all age so you can cull more of them based on their ground race.

 

As nice as a derby championship is,,,I put more value on a dog's career once it is in broke stakes.

 

If Ike is messing with it,, it's a nice dog. 

I made the same mistake when I first looked at that list on FB.  They number the dogs sequentially rather then by brace -- total of 55 dogs -- still a big derby stake.  

 

I would expect the vast majority of these dogs to be well broke.

 

I think Alex posted a win picture of the dog from Montana looked well put together.

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406dn
1 minute ago, Craig Doherty said:

I made the same mistake when I first looked at that list on FB.  They number the dogs sequentially rather then by brace -- total of 55 dogs -- still a big derby stake.  

 

I would expect the vast majority of these dogs to be well broke.

 

I think Alex posted a win picture of the dog from Montana looked well put together.

 

Well, that makes it only half as difficult, fifty five shades of gray. Yes, most will be broke, certainly the winner will be. Still, they are only competing against dogs their own age,,, if you assume no one red shirted a dog. Broke stakes have everything from precocious derbies to seasoned vets,, that to me,, is the real deal.

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dogrunner

I would think there is some red shirts in the mix. Not very many shags.

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Craig Doherty
36 minutes ago, 406dn said:

 

Well, that makes it only half as difficult, fifty five shades of gray. Yes, most will be broke, certainly the winner will be. Still, they are only competing against dogs their own age,,, if you assume no one red shirted a dog. Broke stakes have everything from precocious derbies to seasoned vets,, that to me,, is the real deal.

Yeah but . . . I recently wrote about puppy stakes that they mean very little in the course of events but that said -- I'd rather win them then not.  The GA Derby is still a great win.

 

26 minutes ago, dogrunner said:

I would think there is some red shirts in the mix. Not very many shags.

I would be amazed if there weren't.  However it seems like over the last 20 years we are breeding more precocious and trainable dogs and we have made advances in our training techniques so that it's not unusual for true derbies to be broke at this point in the year.

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Flush

I suspect a good many are red-shirted, probably (hopefully) not a full year but probably a lot born in the Aug-Dec time-frame registered in Jan-Feb.

 I don't even think most in this major AA realm look at that amount of red-shirting as red-shirting.....

 

And I also agree it is completely possible to have a true derby aged dog broke.....but giving yourself another 3 to 6 months certainly doesn't hurt either.

 

 

9 hours ago, Shawn F said:

Maybe he will be the one to breed to rather than breeding to a dog that you have to "wait on" ?

 

 

What does that mean? Is it hard to get bitches in to be bred by Shamrock?

 

 

 

 

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dgfavor
Quote

 I don't even think most in this major AA realm look at that amount of red-shirting as red-shirting.....

 

Be a cheater and liar long enough the cheats and lies seem true??  

 

Yah, I don't pay much mind to derby stakes at all.  Agree with Dave on judging them...truly a stake where at times you can have every entrant thinking they won the thing...and maybe they did...who knows??  ;) 

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NC Quailhunter

If Yukon Cornelius is as good on the all age circuit as Caladens DaVinci is as a shooting dog the setter guys will be lining up. 

 That should be an interesting derby to watch 

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Shawn F
22 hours ago, Shawn F said:

Maybe he will be the one to breed to rather than breeding to a dog that you have to "wait on" ?

 

 

Flush, it means rather than breeding to a dog that it's owner has given an inordinate amount of time and energy to get get broke and competitive with the dogs it is competing against because "well, it's a setter and setters develop slower"

 

I always thought that making excuses for a dog you wanted to breed or breed to did not do any breeding program good, but rather did good for that program's competition.

 

 

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Flush
7 hours ago, Shawn F said:

 

Flush, it means rather than breeding to a dog that it's owner has given an inordinate amount of time and energy to get get broke and competitive with the dogs it is competing against because "well, it's a setter and setters develop slower"

 

 

 

I did not realize that was the case with Shamrock.

 

How long does it usually take you to develop your champion AA setters Shawn?

 

 

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Shawn F

I apologize if it sounded that I meant to be referring at all to the Shamrock dog.  I have heard only good things about it and seen it only twice.  I know nothing at all about any pups out of it.  

 

You are around setters, I doubt you are oblivious to the fact that many setter owners are "patient"

 

Just glad to see a couple of setters that look competitive while still derbies.  Shamrock included.

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