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Remo

HUNTING ND? MAYBE NOT

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MNSpaniels

I lived in ND for a short period of time, 4 years. While there, I was surprised, given the size of the state, at the lack of public land. I didn't bother to learn the ins and outs of ND public land policy/issues in detail but got the impression that Ranchers/Farmers/land owners were/are resistant to the expansion of public land. Resistance which includes anti public land legislation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If I'm correct, it sounds like they want to have their cake and eat to. The passage of the law would set up of a sort of feudal system. Hunters would be forced to pay homage to land owners, since they're not allowed to organize for the purchase of lands managed for public use by a state agency. I'd support the passage of the trespass bill if it became easier for public land to be purchased.

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Remo
1 hour ago, MNSpaniels said:

I lived in ND for a short period of time, 4 years. While there, I was surprised, given the size of the state, at the lack of public land. I didn't bother to learn the ins and outs of ND public land policy/issues in detail but got the impression that Ranchers/Farmers/land owners were/are resistant to the expansion of public land. Resistance which includes anti public land legislation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If I'm correct, it sounds like they want to have their cake and eat to. The passage of the law would set up of a sort of feudal system. Hunters would be forced to pay homage to land owners, since they're not allowed to organize for the purchase of lands managed for public use by a state agency. I'd support the passage of the trespass bill if it became easier for public land to be purchased.

 

Your first paragraph is correct. Multiple ND laws from ag groups to explicitly prohibit wildlife conservation groups from expanding acreage, NDGF, BLM, USFS, USFW, included. Members of those ag groups want to buy private land a cheaper price.

 

The passage of SB-2315 will do nothing to change those attitudes and will only drive public hunting deeper into the ground.

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MNSpaniels
1 hour ago, Remo said:

 

Your first paragraph is correct. Multiple ND laws from ag groups to explicitly prohibit wildlife conservation groups from expanding acreage, NDGF, BLM, USFS, USFW, included. Members of those ag groups want to buy private land a cheaper price.

 

The passage of SB-2315 will do nothing to change those attitudes and will only drive public hunting deeper into the ground.

 

Then SB-2315 should be defeated.

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GB Jack
5 hours ago, Remo said:

 

A blanket no trespass law eliminates competition for pay to play by removing free access for hunters. Example. A candy store has a store on either side of it giving away free candy. So the candy store gets a law passed eliminating free candy.

SB-2315 has to come out of committee today or tomorrow so we'll see what shakes out here in ND.

I have to respectfully disagree , just my opinion. If the money carrot is dangled , a trespass law isn’t going to change down landowners mind on wether he’s going to take money or not .

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GB Jack
3 hours ago, Keith E. Carlson said:

One of the problems of this type law is that it makes it difficult to find who owns what land and how to get in touch with them.

In our area much land is owned/leased by farmers who do not live on the property.

 

Idaho Fish and Game has a program, Access Yes, that helps to some extent.

IDFG contracts with landowners to provide hunting access and publishes a list and restrictions by area.

Works fairly well.

 

https://idfg.idaho.gov/yes

Keith , it is absolutely the easiest thing in the world to find out today,  I can find out with one maps on my phone in less than 2 minutes. We carried plot plot books before the invention of on. X. 

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GB Jack

I hope it gets defeated to settle the minds of ND hunters, but I disagree in what it’s really proposing and the impending doom they seem to think it will bring .

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bobman

Your reasoning indicates you really don’t understand the situation in ND

 

 

 

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GB Jack
58 minutes ago, bobman said:

Your reasoning indicates you really don’t understand the situation in ND

 

 

 

That may very well be, but I have hunted there for over a Decade , on private land . Never have I just “ walked on” without asking. Yup, I’ve been denied , but always found quality hunting eventually. I’m obviously missing something with the correlation they’ve tried to draw. 

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Dave in Maine

The problem is manifold, but I'll address just one corner of it - who do you ask to get permission?

Today it is no longer the day of knocking on the door at Farmer Brown's and asking to hunt his back 40.  In many instances, the guy working the land doesn't own it but leases it from some investor.  Or is an employee of some contractor who's working for the investor this year.  Or, if he does own it he owns a patchwork of parcels and may live nowhere near the plot you want to hunt.  Good luck finding even the local guy.

That owner/investor could be local, or they could be oceans away.  For instance, Harvard university through its endowment owns or invests in agricultural properties and projects around the world.  Here's one of many articles on them - https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/18/harvard-spars-with-neighbors-of-100m-california-vineyard/  

To be blunt, they DGAS about your hunting.  They hate hunting and hunters.  (Hell, you shoulda seen the look I got from my most recent girlfriend, a Harvard administrator, when I told her early on that  I hunted and fished and had for my whole life, stating without saying explicitly that it was non-negotiable and she could take it or leave it.  To her credit, she took it.  We broke up for other reasons.)

All they care about is their profit.  Hunters and hunting get in the way of  their profit.  Spending time on posting land costs money.  It's cheaper to buy a few legislators and get a law passed that relieves them of the burden of posting AND opens up the world of selling hunting to the highest bidder.  More profit.  In the linked article they were bitching about only making 10 percent ROI in a recent year.

But, who you gonna call to get permission?  It's not like these owners are particularly forthcoming with their identities.  They'll use names like "T4R7 34th section Investment property, LLC" or "123 Main Street Corporation" or whatever - often linked to the description of the property.  From their point of view, it makes sense because it helps them keep their accounting straight for each particular parcel.  But the "registered agent" (if there is one) is some Betty Crocker at an outfit like CT Corporation, who knows nothing, doesn't care and couldn't put you in contact with the person who would have the authority to give you permission even if they knew and cared enough to do so.  All they do is get the mail, send it to a law office, accounting firm, investment advisor, or endowment manager, often a PO Box.

The way to prevent a bill like in ND from going through (we have a similar push building in Maine, too) is to make the legislators know the downside of voting against hunters and hunting and, if that doesn't sink in, remove them from office.

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sharptail grouse

As I mentioned in a previous post - I figure out who to ask by checking with the folks I already know in the area. They generally know who leases the land and the lessee often has power of granting access (I don't know how this would work in Maine, but in ag land like MT and I assume ND its pretty common). In the cases where the actual owner of the land has retained the right to grant access you can usually get a phone number or at least an idea from the lessee as to whether its worth your time to call - you are probably not the first bird hunter who wanted to hunt there. If the owner is like Harvard in the above example - well then you know ahead of time its not worth your time. This method of course dictates that you have a decent relationship with at least one landowner in the area. I have never had an issue finding out who to contact if I really tried and if it becomes too much of a hassle or it looks like a certain no, I just go look for another parcel. 

Honestly (and I'm not insinuating anything here!) I think some people just feel uncomfortable making cold calls like this. It does expose you to rejection, but it also opens up some pretty amazing hunting opportunities. More than once I have approached a landowner with an uncomfortable knot in my stomach only to find that not only can I hunt that juicy piece of cover I'm asking about, but the guy has a half section (or what ever) not visible from the road that turns out to be a whole lot better. Its a challenge that can take time away from following your dog, but it builds on itself every time you are in the area and can give you more time following the dog in the end. 

Again for all you ND hunters I wish you luck and hope you can overcome this. But you better be ready to do the same fight all over again next year. We have had a Stream Access Law here in MT since the 80's that has been upheld in the MT Supreme Court more than once and it still gets challenged by "nontraditional landowners". If I hunted there I think I'd start knocking on a few doors just in case they take this away from you. It won't be the same but you'll have something at least. Good Luck!

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Remo

Guys, we are down to the wire. Like having a baby, we need one more push to kill this bill. We did it every other time and some of you helped then too. The floor vote will finally be late Monday or early Tuesday in the ND State Senate. They do read their emails over the weekend.  If you have the time, use the block email address to copy paste in the address line & ask them all for a do not pass and a real short explanation, like a couple lines how you appreciate the unposted land when you come here.

 

SB-2315 Do Not Pass

 

hcanderson@nd.gov , jbakke@nd.gov , bbekkedahl@nd.gov , raburckhard@nd.gov , dclemens@nd.gov , dcook@nd.gov , kdavison@nd.gov , ddever@nd.gov , jdotzenrod@nd.gov , madwyer@nd.gov , jayelkin@nd.gov , rerbele@nd.gov , rfors@nd.gov , jgrabinger@nd.gov , jheckaman@nd.gov , khogan@nd.gov , dhogue@nd.gov , rholmberg@nd.gov , jkannianen@nd.gov , jklein@nd.gov , kkrebsbach@nd.gov , ckreun@nd.gov , olarsen@nd.gov , dklarson@nd.gov , galee@nd.gov , jlee@nd.gov , lluick@nd.gov , rmarcellais@nd.gov , tmathern@nd.gov , scottmeyer@nd.gov , jmyrdal@nd.gov , eoban@nd.gov , doehlke@nd.gov , aosland@nd.gov , dpatten@nd.gov , mpiepkorn@nd.gov , npoolman@nd.gov , lrobinson@nd.gov , jroers@nd.gov , kroers@nd.gov , drust@nd.gov , dgschaible@nd.gov , rsorvaag@nd.gov ,  jkunruh@nd.gov ,  svedaa@nd.gov , tmwanzek@nd.gov , rwardner@nd.gov

 

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gjw

Thanks for the update Remo!  I sent my email just now.  I hope others as well will do the same.  I mentioned the economic impact and hunting heritage angles.  Hope common sense prevails on this one.

 

BTW, that bull that sold for a record 1.5 million, is from my home town here.  The Schaff's are mighty nice folks, we go to church with them and my kid used to babysit for them. Just a side note.

 

Anyway,  fingers crossed!

 

Best,

 

Greg 

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Sage Hen

Thanks for keeping us informed Remo. Easy enough to remind them again. I hope we can shut this down.

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Remo

The bastages pushing this bill still have not released the proposed language to the public. Apparently hiding it in committee, even though the committee already voted.  I wish I controlled lightening. 😖

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sharptail grouse

Remo - As my mom used to tell me - be careful what you wish for!

 

Good luck with this!

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