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juneboy1

The end of Gentleman Bob

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Kansas Big Dog
On 11/8/2019 at 8:53 AM, co_setter said:

Mike,

I think a lot of farmers are in denial about the amount of damage caused by erosion etc.  Once the gully is filled in, it never happened.

 

I find those tenant/farm manager/farmer conversations focus on profit , escaped weeds and do to ditches and waterways look manicured.  Most of which are detrimental to quail.  I have to push hard to keep the tenant on our small parcel from mowing the edges.  He is concerned other landlords will see that and assume his is a bad farmer.

 

I think it is humorous when there is a piece of land that is farmed, mowed and grazed into submission and looks like city ground and there is a no hunting sign. Obviously they have no idea that there is nothing worth hunting on their wildlife barren ground.

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mister grouse
4 hours ago, co_setter said:

My experience with switchgrass is much different.  The bunchgrass growth habit leaves enough space at ground level for the quail to move easily.  In really think pure plantings, it can crowd out the broadleaves that are important sources of insects.  I prefer mixed plantings and occasional light grazing as a monoculture of any kind is generally not great wildlife habitat.

 

The switchgrass plots i described are solid blocks of several/may acres.  It is impenetrable in those blocks, especially in areas with a lot of rain to make the grass prosper.    IMO in those blocks no quail could survive.  Your federal government (and mine) paid a lot of farmers a nice chunk of change to grow the Switchgrasss in large quantities a few years ago in an effort to get feedstock  somewhat experimental bio-gas plants as an alternative energy fuel.  Those who planted it and got paid for a few years of government subsidized crop are trying to figure out how to get rid of the stuff in my area.  Its tough to get the soil free of it to successfully raise another  crop. FWIW

 

I think in mixed grass planting in small clumps or single short intermixed rows it might have quail value, as you note.  And i think I  Said that in a general way in an earlier post..

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co_setter
2 hours ago, mister grouse said:

 

The switchgrass plots i described are solid blocks of several/may acres.  It is impenetrable in those blocks, especially in areas with a lot of rain to make the grass prosper.    IMO in those blocks no quail could survive.  Your federal government (and mine) paid a lot of farmers a nice chunk of change to grow the Switchgrasss in large quantities a few years ago in an effort to get feedstock  somewhat experimental bio-gas plants as an alternative energy fuel.  Those who planted it and got paid for a few years of government subsidized crop are trying to figure out how to get rid of the stuff in my area.  Its tough to get the soil free of it to successfully raise another  crop. FWIW

 

I think in mixed grass planting in small clumps or single short intermixed rows it might have quail value, as you note.  And i think I  Said that in a general way in an earlier post..

I have seen a lot of CRP with switchgrass come back to crop and the only time there has been any issue is if they don't mow or burn the old residue and wait for regrowth before spraying. 

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sharptail grouse
7 hours ago, mister grouse said:

 

The switchgrass plots i described are solid blocks of several/may acres.  It is impenetrable in those blocks, especially in areas with a lot of rain to make the grass prosper.    IMO in those blocks no quail could survive.  Your federal government (and mine) paid a lot of farmers a nice chunk of change to grow the Switchgrasss in large quantities a few years ago in an effort to get feedstock  somewhat experimental bio-gas plants as an alternative energy fuel.  Those who planted it and got paid for a few years of government subsidized crop are trying to figure out how to get rid of the stuff in my area.  Its tough to get the soil free of it to successfully raise another  crop. FWIW

 

I think in mixed grass planting in small clumps or single short intermixed rows it might have quail value, as you note.  And i think I  Said that in a general way in an earlier post..

It needs to be burned.

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tut
11 hours ago, sharptail grouse said:

It needs to be burned.

 

The problem is if it was entered into Federal program (as was these areas I mentioned earlier) then they are only allowed to burn it once every 3 years.   The quail were gone by the time the second burn was to take place.  When there were quail here, the farmer/owner for a few years either had it as a mixture of grass or weeds, or in the case of two years he planted it in corn and left it standing all winter long as food for wildlife.   His goal at that time was to manage the entire farm for wildlife, with perhaps 50 acres set aside in orchard grass for making hay for sale to offset some expenses. 

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Kansas Big Dog
17 hours ago, co_setter said:

I have seen a lot of CRP with switchgrass come back to crop and the only time there has been any issue is if they don't mow or burn the old residue and wait for regrowth before spraying. 

 

Not sure if you all looked at this

 

MO Quail study thread

 

It is a study they did in MO on groups of radio collared quail on different types of habitat. Gets to what you all are discussing.

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spring

While some of the federal programs may not have been best for quail management or restoration, at least the 2018 Farm Bill had some very positive provisions. After reading through it, I contacted my county FSA office. I mentioned what I had found, and as far as I know, am the only area landowner that applied for the quail management funding. Not too long after applying, I received funding approval for spraying of hardwoods in 2019 and for burning in 2020.  I burn parts of my place every year, but it's nice to get some funds to help pay for it.  I can't remember the exact total, but for the two years I'll get about $26,000, most of which has already been put to use.

 

2018 Farm Bill supports Bobwhites

 

 

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mccuha
2 hours ago, spring said:

While some of the federal programs may not have been best for quail management or restoration, at least the 2018 Farm Bill had some very positive provisions. After reading through it, I contacted my county FSA office. I mentioned what I had found, and as far as I know, am the only area landowner that applied for the quail management funding. Not too long after applying, I received funding approval for spraying of hardwoods in 2019 and for burning in 2020.  I burn parts of my place every year, but it's nice to get some funds to help pay for it.  I can't remember the exact total, but for the two years I'll get about $26,000, most of which has already been put to use.

 

2018 Farm Bill supports Bobwhites

 

 

My hunting pal has his entire property under strict management for quail.  He gets paid as you for all the above from our FSA.  He does the work and the government basically reimburses him.  He also created a ton of fire breaks and got paid for creating them and maintaining them.  He and his agent are always looking for different programs he ll benefit from. He’s in I think a 3 yr rotation of burning sections.  His property looks like a giant checker board and keeps up with which sections need to be burned each year.

 We are in the process of getting our property enrolled.  We currently have a couple small covies that are able to make a living from the edges and other habitat we ve created so far.  Once we are fully involved we will see growth. 

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spring
2 hours ago, mccuha said:

My hunting pal has his entire property under strict management for quail.  He gets paid as you for all the above from our FSA.  He does the work and the government basically reimburses him.  He also created a ton of fire breaks and got paid for creating them and maintaining them.  He and his agent are always looking for different programs he ll benefit from. He’s in I think a 3 yr rotation of burning sections.  His property looks like a giant checker board and keeps up with which sections need to be burned each year.

 We are in the process of getting our property enrolled.  We currently have a couple small covies that are able to make a living from the edges and other habitat we ve created so far.  Once we are fully involved we will see growth. 

 

To maximize birds, you do need to focus on habitat, not to mention year-round feeding. I do many of the items you mentioned though the most recent quail research encourages a 2-year burn cycle; quail like to nest in the second year after a disturbance (burning, disking, ect). We completed much of my checkerboarding last week; should wrap it up this week.  I do wish I could say that the FSA came anywhere near paying for it all. 😀

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mccuha
43 minutes ago, spring said:

 

To maximize birds, you do need to focus on habitat, not to mention year-round feeding. I do many of the items you mentioned though the most recent quail research encourages a 2-year burn cycle; quail like to nest in the second year after a disturbance (burning, disking, ect). We completed much of my checkerboarding last week; should wrap it up this week.  I do wish I could say that the FSA came anywhere near paying for it all. 😀

Agreed. I may be wrong.  He may burn every 2 years. He also does some supplemental feeding   I’m not sure how much milo he buys but he has a big silo and has a spreader that throws the seeds deep into cover a good ways off the fire breaks.  He spends a lot of money but it’s part of his hobby and really likes it.  We have to add some more fire breaks on our place. Hopefully we ll get assistance from FSA this coming year along with other programs.  We are in the upstate of SC but if you went to my friends place you’d swear you were in south GA

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