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New CRP Enrollment Period Announced

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sharptail grouse
1 hour ago, Kansas Big Dog said:

 

That maybe how you look at, but farmers and landowners look at as it is a business decision,  in other words, do they risk farming it, or is it worth more in CRP payments. They do not look at as free money.

I personally know guys (one works part time for me in the summer) in my area that have made their payments with CRP money. It had little to do with a business decision and a lot more to do with a decision based on the effort needed to put in and harvest a crop. Those guys look at it as free money. But that may not be the case in the mid west where land is more valuable. 

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dogrunner
On 12/24/2019 at 8:39 PM, quailguy said:

The USDA budget for 2019 is $140 B.

 

https://www.obpa.usda.gov/budsum/fy19budsum.pdf

 

71% or $99 B is for Food Stamps, etc.  

pages 19-20 have some CRP data.  $1.9  B for 24 M acres of CRP. About the same as last year. About 1%  in a $1.4T Federal budget.  

 

So the the dirty secret is out; the USDA budget is really the Nation’s food bank program and 71% of its budget is for food for poor people. The deal is urban legislators vote for Ag programs as payback for mostly urban centers getting food stamps.  And the relatively fewer rural reps vote for food stamps which gets their counterparts support for farms to get slightly less than 30% of the Ag budget.  

 

Now on I don’t begrudge poor folks getting food assistance. Not at all .  Just let it be out in the open.  

 

Not really poor people but people that work the system. 

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SelbyLowndes
36 minutes ago, dogrunner said:

Not really poor people but people that work the system. 

 

 

Mostly poor people I think.  People who play the system should be treated like medicaid frauds. JMHO...SelbyLowndes

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Kansas Big Dog
2 hours ago, sharptail grouse said:

I personally know guys (one works part time for me in the summer) in my area that have made their payments with CRP money. It had little to do with a business decision and a lot more to do with a decision based on the effort needed to put in and harvest a crop. Those guys look at it as free money.

 

So you base your whole out look as it is "Free Money," on a couple part time farmers you know?

 

In 2000 I bought a quarter section in West Central Missouri that was in CRP. It had one year left in the contract. After the contract expired, I bought some bred heifers and ran a cattle operation on the grass. Made about 4 times the amount of money the CRP was paying. I could have re-enrolled it , but didn't make any business sense to me. If the guys you know are making more off of CRP than they could farming or grazing, that is out of the ordinary.

 

I would speculate that a lot of the CRP in Kansas is owned by non-farming land owners that either can't find some one to farm their land, or they like the safe risk free federal money coming in that they do not have to split with a farmer.

"

 

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sharptail grouse
1 hour ago, Kansas Big Dog said:

 

So you base your whole out look as it is "Free Money," on a couple part time farmers you know?

 

In 2000 I bought a quarter section in West Central Missouri that was in CRP. It had one year left in the contract. After the contract expired, I bought some bred heifers and ran a cattle operation on the grass. Made about 4 times the amount of money the CRP was paying. I could have re-enrolled it , but didn't make any business sense to me. If the guys you know are making more off of CRP than they could farming or grazing, that is out of the ordinary.

 

 

"

 

No. I think we probably agree on this. The point of my OP is that it is "free money". You have to do the paperwork and follow the stewardship rules, but it still free money. Much of the land in CRP in my part of the world should never have been broken anyway. That was the whole point of CRP I think - land that was erodable and should have been left in native vegetation. I'd bet you could have made more money off of native grass than CRP if hadn't been broken. I just can't stand landowners whining about free money out of one side of the mouth and bitching about families on food stamps from the other. They farm paperwork. Nobody pays me out if I try to start a business and it goes belly up. I'm not denying that its great pheasant habitat.

 

 

 

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Kansas Big Dog
12 minutes ago, sharptail grouse said:

No. I think we probably agree on this. The point of my OP is that it is "free money". You have to do the paperwork and follow the stewardship rules, but it still free money. Much of the land in CRP in my part of the world should never have been broken anyway. That was the whole point of CRP I think - land that was erodable and should have been left in native vegetation. I'd bet you could have made more money off of native grass than CRP if hadn't been broken. I just can't stand landowners whining about free money out of one side of the mouth and bitching about families on food stamps from the other. They farm paperwork. Nobody pays me out if I try to start a business and it goes belly up. I'm not denying that its great pheasant habitat.

 

 

 

 

👍

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SelbyLowndes

My CRP experience is a little different from the western grasslands.  My farm is in piedmont middle GA and before I got it was fescue pasture and cropland.  I never had any interest in farming it myself and finding farmers who could pay up front was was tough.  When CRP first came out the Guv paid an annual rent comparable with going land rent.  In addition they reimbursed my expenses in pine tree planting.  A free crop and annual payments to me for just watching the trees grow.  Way better than my day job! 

 

When the original plantings became commercially harvestable, new programs were available for wildlife friendly harvesting.  Finally, the payments became less lucrative than the industrial style commercial harvesting and new guidelines required harvest of noncommercial wood to open wildlife spaces.  Now all my woodlands are out of CRP and the proceeds from harvest pays for replanting.

 

Farmer welfare?  All welfare is paid from tax money and I've certainly paid my share...SelbyLowndes     

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Ndi32

Not as pessimistic as many here in regards landowner participation. 

  • No general sign-up since 2016 & the low commodity prices will help.
  • Acres will be allowed to cross over to some continuous programs like SAFE.  May be others included but can't find any comprehensive info published at this time.
  • Less focus on large parcel enrollment so truly marginal acres can be targeted more easily. Particularly previously cropped acres adjacent/attached to other environmentally sensitive areas.
  • Non-USDA programs/efforts being pursued in the pheasant belt like Precision AG, state contributions to provide access, Saline Soils etc. can also help improve the business case for the property owner.

IMO the wild card is how the USDA will score the applications and where they will be instructed to set the eligibility cut-off point.  Still possible they will set it artificially high and use that to limit the acres enrolled.

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Kansas Big Dog
On 12/30/2019 at 10:01 AM, Ndi32 said:

IMO the wild card is how the USDA will score the applications and where they will be instructed to set the eligibility cut-off point.

 

I wonder sometimes if this is controlled somewhat by the local county folks. Which may or may not be good for birds.

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4setters

The numbers presented above suggest that somewhere around 1% of USDA money goes to CRP programs.  Regardless of how one looks at the rest of their budget, most of the other 99% goes to programs that directly or indirectly promote intensive, surplus-producing ag programs.  Most of this other 99% destroys or degrades wildlife habitat, although their are exceptions.

 

Back in May, Trump approved a 16B bailout for farmers hurt by Chinese trade wars---roughly ten times the money spent on CRP programs.  Money on top of existing farm programs.

 

Its been over ten years since I worked as a Private Lands Biologist for a state wildlife agency, so I am not familiar with all the new "programs" or terminology (food stamps are now SNAP?).  However, it was clear to me then and now that for every dime spent on wildlife programs, there are tens or hundreds of dollars spent on increasing ag production, generally at the expense of wildlife.  It doesn't take a wildlife biologist to know that the declines in such things as bobwhite quail in the SE US and upland wildlife in general are due to intensive, mechanized agriculture.  The 24 million acres of CRP out of 350 million acres of cropland, 750 acres of forestland and 2.3 billion acres in the US are a drop in the bucket.  Without massive change, USDA programs, CRP and others, will never restore upland bird populations to pre-mechanized farming or forestry numbers (notice I said, pre-mechanized here, not settlement populations.  For example, bobwhite quail were probably not abundant in pre-settlement times, but increased greatly during the period of settlement land clearing and pre-mechanized farming) .

 

Having said that, I'm still for CRP and other wildlife programs.  They do supply a small amount of good wildlife habitat in some areas, and more than likely the majority of bird hunters on this site have benefited from these programs at some time or other during their hunting careers.  I know I have.

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