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McGwire admits 'roid use


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That's why he's a man of respect, and  not a scumbag like yourself who goes around making accusations about things they have no facts or even a clue about.

You win, can't have the grandkids thinking I'm a scumbag for teaching them right from wrong, honesty from cheating.

ANF,

You continue to make statements about things you have no understanding or proof of. Like "He came clean now because of the last HOF vote". Care to qualify why you think that is true with actual facts?

No one, including LaRussa or Mac is saying what Mac did was right and not wrong. Get a grip. Matter of fact, what LaRussa is helping Mac with is admitting he was wrong and moving on.

Mac has already said he doesn't expect to make the HOF now. That's not even an issue with him, but it is for Tony.

And he's putting that at risk to help a player straighten himself out. I can tell you for a fact, that is true.

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I can appreciate defending a friend, and I'm not interested in engaging in name calling, but in my view if LaRussa didn't know before now it's because he didn't want to know.  It'll be interesting to see who gets into the HOF and who doesn't.

Dennis

Dennis,

I think one of the problems with 'roids in the pro sports is just who is supposed to police this? Name one manager in any sport who has?

Other than Tony, name one manager/coach who's stood by his player, and guided him into coming clean and dealing with what's in front of them?

One of the steps in getting this 'riod problem under control is having guidelines for how to deal with it from the get go. And who's responsiblity it is to deal with it on a team level. That's something that's absent currently, and needs to be implemented.

I find the whole steroid period disheartening - but I have a hard time hanging Mark in effigy since MLB and the players association was giving the wink and nod to all this going on.  It's not like this was any big secret.  If the owners and fans had wanted it cleaned up, it would have happened.  The fans liked seeing baseballs go so far "they should have had a stewardess on them"  and owners liked seeing fans rolling through the gates.  These players gave everybody what they wanted and now the mob has decided it wants something else.

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"So there is a difference between lying and keeping your mouth shut so you dont have to tell the truth?"

Ah, yes.  The sin of omission.

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Gary,

Everyone knows Mac, Sosa, Bonds and Canseco were using even LaRussa knew.  

Go to yesterday's interview with LaRussa he danced around the question and came with "there were hurdles at that time". I take this to be the Players Union.  They fought against the testing of steroids for a long time, they did not want to address the issue.  I think Mr LaRussa knew I also think he was powerless to do anything about it.

McGuire, did not come clean for any reason other that a self serving reason.  To be the hitting coach, to be back "in the game".  Furthermore, he admitted to using to help recover, he did not tell the truth he told some of the truth.  However, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he is still a cheater.  

Being a cheater should be only part of why he is not suited to be a hitting coach and or HOF inductee.  Why would  you want a 1 dimensional mediocre hitter who only put up HR once he started cheating?  His lifetime average is .268 that is not very good couple that with a .394 OBP what help does he have to offer?  McGuire was an average ball player.

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 It's not like this was any big secret.  If the owners and fans had wanted it cleaned up, it would have happened.  The fans liked seeing baseballs go so far "they should have had a stewardess on them"  and owners liked seeing fans rolling through the gates.  These players gave everybody what they wanted and now the mob has decided it wants something else.

Ding Ding Ding!  We have a winner.  This is just it.  Give 'em what they want 'till they want somethin' else.

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In another light, what's the big deal about steroid use? If an athlete wants to walk around for the rest of his life with acne all over his back and a dusted over shriveled up pecker that's his business, not mine.

Are steroids illegal? Do you need to buy them from a guy with missing teeth in the back of a dark alley? Are they regulated by the DEA?

Steroids in baseball, much like baseball itself, is pretty irrelevant to my life. Given the option of watching baseball or playing Do-It-Yourself-Root-Canal; The Home Edition I'll take the dental drill.

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I find the whole steroid period disheartening - but I have a hard time hanging Mark in effigy since MLB and the players association was giving the wink and nod to all this going on.  It's not like this was any big secret.  If the owners and fans had wanted it cleaned up, it would have happened.  The fans liked seeing baseballs go so far "they should have had a stewardess on them"  and owners liked seeing fans rolling through the gates.  These players gave everybody what they wanted and now the mob has decided it wants something else.

Exactly.

Part of the solution is knowing who's responsible for policing this stuff, especially when there's no proof. "Suspicion" needs proof. You can not go pointing fingers and issuing penalties without it.

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Everyone knows Mac, Sosa, Bonds and Canseco were using even LaRussa knew.  

Being "suspect" is totally different than having proof positive. Where was the proof?

Go to yesterday's interview with LaRussa he danced around the question and came with "there were hurdles at that time". I take this to be the Players Union.  They fought against the testing of steroids for a long time, they did not want to address the issue.  I think Mr LaRussa knew I also think he was powerless to do anything about it.

Again, I ask anyone to name me a manager who's going to call a player on using steriods with all of that in mind, and having  no proof positive?

McGuire, did not come clean for any reason other that a self serving reason.  To be the hitting coach, to be back "in the game".  

I think that's part of it for sure, but hardly the only reason.

Being a cheater should be only part of why he is not suited to be a hitting coach and or HOF inductee.  Why would  you want a 1 dimensional mediocre hitter who only put up HR once he started cheating?  His lifetime average is .268 that is not very good couple that with a .394 OBP what help does he have to offer?  McGuire was an average ball player.

Let's see...

-- In 1987, he was Rookie of the Year, hitting 49 home runs.

-- His senior year in college at USC, he lead the nation in home runs.

-- He started using steriods in 1989/90, well after those seasons.

That's hardly being an average ball player.  The real facts are tripping you up here.

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Alright…..mini rant here……….

All these roid –boys in MLB really burn my ass, yes for the reasons from a fans perspective just like everyone here posted, but also on a more personal level.

I was a decent player, pitched in college and could bring it reasonably well for a “little guy”……5’11” 165lbs back then, I would sit all game at 86mph and would touch 88-90 on occasion if I was feeling great, had a decent curve and developed a solid forkball for a change-up in college.  I didn’t really have a chance at anything more than dabbling in the low minors or semi-pro ball, however I had several friends I played with that would have been solid prospects in the 1970s or 80’s, under different circumstances.

I would tag along to their open tryouts and for giggles I would also throw for scouts knowing that my size and therefore projected durability would come up as far as feedback.  More than once they basically flat out said if I wanted to have a chance, I needed to add about 15-20lbs of muscle on my frame and I should do what “XYZ” over there did over the past couple years to add the bulk…….”What did he do?”  “You’ll have to ask him”.  That was basically how it went.

One friend was signed as a third baseman, did some time with a backyard chemist while playing low A ball, bulked the crap out of his upper body to increase his power, and his bat speed did increase by 10-15mph from college, however he bulked up so much that he could no longer hit the inside pitch and lost flexibility defensively at 3B……….then in his 3rd season he tore his Achilles tendon and was done.  Works for UPS now.

Point of the story?  My point is, how many guys that stayed clean, or as clean as they could, didn’t get a chance to make it to the pros because the rest were taking the juice?  How many guys fizzled in AAA or AA waiting for their turn behind Big Mac, Canseco, et al?

The whole argument that it doesn’t help you hit a ball is bullchit.  Complete bullchit.  How many Otis Nixon-like slap hitters playing 2B juiced and turned into guys that can hit 10-15HRs and 30 doubles by slapping it into the alleys better?  If you aren’t juiced and I catch you on your front foot with a change-up and you flick it to RF it is an easy fly ball.  Barry Bonds?  He still has enough strength left in his enhanced body to still bang it off the wall or hit it to the opposite field off his front foot……….

Eh……whatever………..this whole thing burns my arse.  Frickin’ cheaters……

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More fun BigMac stats:

batting average '89: .231

batting average '90: .235

batting average '91: .201

And those were full season averages. I've got nothing against him personally. He may be a very nice guy. Who knows. And tons of people were doing roids back then and the topic is getting pretty old. But look at those batting avg numbers.

And how about this stat: 1626 hits and 1596 strikeouts.

Now I know Reggie J had more k's than hits but he had almost 2500 hits. Okay, no more ranting, I just think after the big homeruns McGwire was just an average player and I'm not sure what guys like Pujols and Holliday can take from him. Just my opinion.

I could really care less about this just bummed that I have season tickets to the new Twins Stadium(which I'm totally pumped for) and we can't sign anybody and the one guy left we're interested in is Kevin Kouzmanoff...

Just hope we can keep Mauer around...

Sorry to get off topic.

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Point of the story?  My point is, how many guys that stayed clean, or as clean as they could, didn’t get a chance to make it to the pros because the rest were taking the juice?  How many guys fizzled in AAA or AA waiting for their turn behind Big Mac, Canseco, et al?

Agree that taking 'riods is cheating.

However, young players ulimately make it to the bigs based on how well they play, and not how good or bad someone else does. Sure, if you're in AAA playing a position where the player on the Big team is playing well, it will take longer. Or if they are playing poorly, you'll get there faster.

But all of the good players will get there if they play well. That's the real issue. Playing well enough, so when you get called, you're ready.

Worrying about how another player is doing isn't a good way to get to the bigs.

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The whole argument that it doesn’t help you hit a ball is bullchit.  Complete bullchit.  How many Otis Nixon-like slap hitters playing 2B juiced and turned into guys that can hit 10-15HRs and 30 doubles by slapping it into the alleys better?

Eh……whatever………..this whole thing burns my arse.  Frickin’ cheaters……

Lady Brady Anderson comes to mind Steve.  In 1995 he hit 16 dingers and came back in '96 and looked like a blown up version of himself. He hit 50 HR's that year which may still be a record for lead off hitters.  He never hit more than 24 besides '96 and is considered the poster boy in Baltimore for what steroids can do.

The whole lot of them should be ingnored and not admitted to the HOF.

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some of these guys with inflated 'juiced' numbers will get in the HOF but we are keeping Pete Rose one of the best players (I said player) of all time out?
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Point of the story?  My point is, how many guys that stayed clean, or as clean as they could, didn’t get a chance to make it to the pros because the rest were taking the juice?  How many guys fizzled in AAA or AA waiting for their turn behind Big Mac, Canseco, et al?

Agree that taking 'riods is cheating.

However, young players ulimately make it to the bigs based on how well they play, and not how good or bad someone else does. Sure, if you're in AAA playing a position where the player on the Big team is playing well, it will take longer. Or if they are playing poorly, you'll get there faster.

But all of the good players will get there if they play well. That's the real issue. Playing well enough, so when you get called, you're ready.

Worrying about how another player is doing isn't a good way to get to the bigs.

I don’t disagree necessarily, however roids taken by players such as Mac, Canseco, Bonds etc. redefined what a baseball player is at certain positions.

For instance there were plenty of good and I mean damn good first basemen in history that might not get a great look now because they don’t “fit the mold”.  Keith Hernandez comes to mind, awesome first basemen, wasn’t much on power, Mattingly’s power came and went and he still was the starting 1B for the most storied franchise in sports for years hitting 5,9,17,15 HRs………

It does matter what the guys on the major league roster do because as an A or AA player you make adjustments away from what you may be good at to try to fit into what the club wants….ie. a great contact hitting 3B bulks up because they want more power out of their 3B position and subsequently loses their ability to make consistent contact, then fizzles out of baseball.  What if someone screwed with Boggs and Lansford because 3B was a power position?

I’m just saying, what becomes the prototype in MLB also has significant influence on how clubs try to develop young players.

Eh, the discussion is a slippery slope.

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