McGwire admits 'roid use

[polecat]

Where's my Ovaltine?

[Rex Hoppie]

Banned.

[Rex Hoppie]

No, wait, Ovaltine is the good stuff.  It was Postum that was banned.

[Rex Hoppie]

They didn't actually ban postum, they quit making it.

[LivermushBiscuit]

You need to look up the word objectivity before throwing it around. You don't even know these people, and your only source of information is what you have read.  Your facts are incomplete, and in some cases, totally incorrect.

[...]

The real scumbag here is you.

Uh, the concept of "objectivity" suggests the independence of personal influence regarding the merits of an equation or theory.  It's going to be hard for me to continue having this debate, if you insist on proving my point.  What you have, my grammatically challenged fellow, is called subjectivity.  They're opposites, if that helps you understand.

I don't know what "facts" of mine you consider incomplete or incorrect, or if this is more of your inability to distinguish fact from opinion, but I suspect this is your weak-assed attempt to invalidate my opinion by tossing around some vague accusation that I've been misleading or dishonest.  If I've presented a fact that you can shoot holes in, by all means sir, have at it.

But, you can't do that.  You can resort to name-calling, though, can't you?  I'm a scumbag?

The player cheated, and that was wrong.  I'm convinced that his "boss" knew all about, and did not discourage or impede that behavior, thus benefitting from it.  You've chosen to defend both of these folks and/or marginalize their behavior.  I elected to not cheat, when I had an opportunity to do so, and I vehemently denounce those who do and those who enable it, and those who benefit from it.  Among these four people (McGuire, LaRussa, Capalletti, and me), if I'm the odd-man-out scumbag in this group, then God help us.

If you can't do any better than the name-calling, then drop me a PM.  We'll sling epithets at each other till the cows come home, or until another one of Tony's boys proves dirty.

[Guest]

Resorting to name calling? That's funny, especially since YOU have used the term  scumbag earlier --  "Believe in your (scumbag) buddy all you like" --   to label LaRussa.  And now refer to me as  "grammatically challenged fellow". I see, in your mind, it's fine for you to call others names, but can't seem to live with it when your own crap get's tossed back at you. Nice guy.

And I'm more than aware of the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. I work with that  daily in doing diagnostic work ups. The problem with your objectivity is you don't have the  facts. You didn't obtain  your so called facts yourself, or know the conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings.

You proved that right here:

The player cheated, and that was wrong.  I'm convinced that his "boss" knew all about and did not discourage or impede that behavior, thus benefitting from it.

So, in using your own words, could you as the current  "grammatically challenged fellow", please provide the facts to support that statement without distortion by personal feelings?

As you said in your last post "It's going to be hard for me to continue having this debate, if you insist on proving my point."

Funny how it is when you start slinging crap, it comes back right in your face, isn't it?

Oh, and once again, show me some FACTUAL information where ANY MANAGER ANYWHERE has steriod tested  a player, or punished one for steriod use.

[Trappercase]

I don't think Livermush is saying that Larussa was the only manager to turn a blind eye, he's just saying that you would have to be pretty naive to think that he didn't know.  I agree.

[Guest]

I don't think Livermush is saying that Larussa was the only manager to turn a blind eye, he's just saying that you would have to be pretty naive to think that he didn't know.  I agree.

I don't think that is what he meant, but anyway...

Mark's mother is very tall and muscular. She's not fat at all, but just a big strong, athletic woman. His Dad also fits that same mold. As does his brother, who played QB in the NFL. It is conceivable that Mac could have built himself up to where he was using weighs and things like Muscle Milk, etc. He worked out for a tremendous amount of time.

I don't think it's right for any manager to go and accuse any player  of being on steriods when they can not prove it. Nor do I think it's the managers job to order any such testing. That's in MLB's and the owners hands. Any manager who doesn't act -- when he does not know --  on that is not a scumbag. Nor his he a scumbag for saying he didn't know when he didn't have  proof that the player was on steroids.

Barry Bonds? I think in looking at him that one would surely suspect him of being on 'roids, and MLB should have acted on that much sooner.  Not his manager. And his manager would probably tell you he didn't know  either -- because he didn't  have any proof.

[Brad Eden]

Liver--Gary-take the personal attacks off the board. READ the guidelines please.

[LivermushBiscuit]

When I played, I was always the fastest guy on the field.  I was fast, man oh man, was I fast.  How fast?

I once hit a screaming line drive that hit me in the head as I rounded 2nd base.

Doctors say the impact was directly to the social skills portion of my brain.