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 You can thank Dubya's intrusions into basic liberties for that!   :)

I didn't realize the Patriot Act was done by Executive Order.

It was, is, and forever shall be, GW's fault. Hell, even the 'bama is still blaming him. THey cain't hep themseves.

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President Obama signed a one-year extension of three sections of the USA Patriot Act on Saturday without any new limits on the measures that many liberal groups and Democrats said were necessary to safeguard American civil liberties.

Patriot Act

Dang Dubya, musta forced Obama to sign it.

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I haven't received my census questionaire yet, but in today's post I did receive a warning letter that my questionaire will be arriving in about a week or so.

I paraphrase: Your response is important.  If you do not send it in you may not get as big a piece of the cake as you deserve.

A PS in 6 languages informs you can go to 2010census.gov for help in filling out your census form.

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how many people is all they are entilted to know, all they get to know and untill the US Constitution is amended all they will ever get from me.

the Fed comes 3rd on the who has the power tree for a reason.

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Does anybody know how many census folks are employed by the government and spend their work days in buried Airstream trailers?
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I paraphrase: Your response is important.  If you do not send it in you may not get as big a piece of the cake as you deserve.

I interpret: Your response is important. If you do not send it in we won't have as good an idea how far we can bend you over.

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Well I got 2.  One in MA and one in VT…………..maybe I’ve got a split personality or something…………now the real question, which one do I fill out…………

MA

I'm not sure you could pass your flatlanders test.

There's only one question on the test...........and I'm fairly certain I lost on that one when I took my first breath in the hospital......... :laugh:

Alan........I was kinda kidding about which one should I fill out.  I just now have to decide where I want the black helicopters to come look for me....... :D

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Questions asked on the census dating from 1780

Source; The University of Virginia Library

1790

Variables for 1790 Census

General Population    Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth    Slave Population    Slaveholders    

General Population

total population families with 11 or more members families with ten members families with nine members families with eight members families with seven members families with six members families with five members families with four members families with three members families with two members white males 16 years of age and over white males under 16 years of age white females all other free persons total families families with one member

Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth

persons of scotch nationality persons of irish nationality persons of hebrew nationality persons of german nationality persons of french nationality persons of english and welsh nationality persons of dutch nationality persons of all other nationalities persons of all nationalities

Slave Population

slaves

Slaveholders

families holding 2-4 slaves families holding one slave avg. slaves per slaveholding family percent of free colored nonslaveholding families holding 5-9 slaves families holding 10-19 slaves families holding 20-49 slaves families holding 50-99 slaves families holding 100-199 slaves families holding 200-299 slaves families holding 300 slaves or more percent of white nonslaveholding families percent of free colored slaveholding families slaveholding families white slaveholding families total members in white slaveholding families avg. members per family in white slaveholding families free colored slaveholding families nonslaveholding families white nonslaveholding families total members in white nonslaveholding families avg. members per family of white nonslaveholding families free colored nonslaveholding families percent of white slaveholding families families holding an unknown slaves

1820 - considerably larger field of required information I will not list actual individual questions just general information required of individuals taking the census

Variables for 1820 Census

General Population    Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth    Agriculture    Economy/Manufacturing/Employment    Slave Population    

1850 another BIG jump

Variables for 1850 Census

General Population    Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth    Education & Literacy    Agriculture    Economy/Manufacturing/Employment    Churches & Religion    Marital Status    Slave Population    Vital Statistics    Housing    

1880

Variables for 1880 Census

General Population    Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth    Agriculture    Economy/Manufacturing/Employment    

I have at this point copied the actual questions asked so as to demonstrate just how much and what kind of information was asked for and given by residents of this country(all taken down in person by a census worker) 130 years ago

General Population

total population males 21 years age and over males 18-44 years age females 5-17 years age males 5-17 years age total females total males

Ethnicity/Race/Place of Birth

persons born in louisiana persons born in maine persons born in maryland persons born in massachusetts persons born in michigan persons born in mississippi persons born in missouri persons born in kentucky persons born in kansas persons born in iowa persons born in indiana persons born in illinois persons born in georgia persons born in florida persons born in the district columbia persons born in delaware persons born in new hampshire persons born in new jersey total native-born persons persons born in wisconsin persons born in west virginia persons born in virginia persons born in vermont persons born in utah persons born in texas persons born in tennessee persons born in south carolina persons born in rhode island persons born in pennsylvania persons born in ohio persons born in north carolina persons born in new york persons born in new mexico total foreign-born persons white persons persons born in the german empire persons born in france persons born in england and wales persons born in denmark persons born in cuba persons born in china persons born in central america persons born in british america persons born in bohemia persons born in austria persons born in the atlantic islands persons born in africa (country not specified) indians chinese persons colored persons persons born in great britain persons born in holland persons born in connecticut persons born in california persons born in arkansas persons born in alabama persons born in the state persons born in the west indies persons born in switzerland persons born in sweden and norway persons born in spain persons born in ireland persons born in italy persons born in mexico persons born in poland persons born in portugal persons born in russia persons born in scotland

Agriculture

acres improved meadows, pastures, etc, in farms acres tilled improved land in farms total acres improved land in farms total acres land in farms farms 1000 or more acres rented for shares of products farms 500-999 acres rented for shares of products farms 100-499 acres rented for shares of products farms 50-99 acres rented for shares of products farms 20-49 acres rented for shares of products farms 10-19 acres rented for shares of products farms 3-9 acres rented for shares of products farms under three acres rented for shares of products total farms rented for shares of products total acres unimproved land in farms acres unimproved woodland and forests in farms bushels rye produced bushels oats produced bushels indian corn produced bushels buckwheat produced bushels barley produced estimated value all farm products, 1879 cost farm fertilizers purchased, 1879 cost building and repairing fences, 1879 value livestock on farms, june 1, 1880 value farm implements and machinery value farm land, fences and buildings acres other unimproved land in farms bushels wheat produced total farms farms 3-9 acres cultivated by owners farms under three acres cultivated by owners total farms cultivated by owners average size farms (in acres) farms 1000 or more acres farms 500-999 acres farms 100-499 acres farms 50-99 acres farms 20-49 acres farms 10-19 acres farms 3-9 acres farms under three acres farms 10-19 acres cultivated by owners farms 20-49 acres cultivated by owners farms 1000 or more acres rented for fixed money rental farms 500-999 acres rented for fixed money rental farms 100-499 acres rented for fixed money rental farms 50-99 acres rented for fixed money rental farms 20-49 acres rented for fixed money rental farms 10-19 acres rented for fixed money rental farms 3-9 acres rented for fixed money rental farms under three acres rented for fixed money rental total farms rented for fixed money rental farms 1000 or more acres cultivated by owners farms 500-999 acres cultivated by owners farms 100-499 acres cultivated by owners farms 50-99 acres cultivated by owners

Economy/Manufacturing/Employment

tonnage new vessels built new vessels built total weight (in tons) products in iron and steel manufacturing value all products in iron and steel manufacturing value all materials in iron and steel manufacturing total annual wages paid in iron and steel manufacturing value new vessels built value repairing vessels total value all shipbuilding products assessed valuation real estate (in dollars) assessed valuation personal property (in dollars) taxation by state taxation by county taxation by city, town, etc. area, in square miles average days wages for an ordinary laborer in iron and steel mfg. average days wages for a skilled mechanic in iron and steel manufacturing average hours labor per week in iron and steel manufacturing capital invested in manufacturing (in dollars) average males 16 years age and over employed in manufacturing average females 15 years age and over employed in manufacturing average youths and children employed in manufacturing total annual wages paid in manufacturing value raw materials in manufacturing value manufactured products iron and steel manufacturing establishments amount capital (real and personal) invested in iron and steel manufacturing total persons employed in iron and steel manufacturing males 16 years age and over employed in iron and steel manufacturing males under 16 years age employed in iron and steel manufacturing females 15 years age and over employed in iron and steel manufacturing females under 15 years age employed in iron and steel manufacturing manufacturing establishments

I have at this point copied the actual questions asked so as to demonstrate just how much and what kind of information was asked for and given by residents of this country(all taken down in person by a census worker)[/b]130 years ago

The census was pretty involved even then and well before that. It involved more than a simple head count right from the very first census. People regarded it as a duty and obligation as citizens. I could go on but I believe this should be adequate to serve as a window into a part of the practicle history of the census. Great Great Grandpa went through it without a fraction of the belly aching and it was way more than a simple head count.

    What is clear from what I've read is that a great many folks have some very off the mark ideas about the constitutional and legal authority concerning the census, Give false answers, Don't fill it out, set the dog on the census taker, wave a gun around, - some pretty off base stuff. here's  some legal backing in favor of congresses right to require compliance and bear in mind this isn't some unqualified rant.

      Enshrining this invention in our Constitution marked a turning point in world history. Previously censuses had been used mainly to tax or confiscate property or to conscript youth into military service. The genius of the Founders was taking a tool of government and making it a tool of political empowerment for the governed over their government.

They accomplished that goal in 1790 and our country has every 10 years since then. And we’re about to continue that tradition in 2010. In 1954, Congress codified earlier census acts and all other statutes authorizing the decennial census as Title 13, U.S. Code. Title 13, U.S. Code, does not specify which subjects or questions are to be included in the decennial census. However, it does require the Census Bureau to notify Congress of general census subjects to be addressed 3 years before the decennial census and the actual questions to be asked 2 years before the decennial census.

Questions beyond a simple count are Constitutional

It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people because, on numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287. In 1901, a District Court said the Constitution's census clause (Art. 1, Sec. 2, Clause 3) is not limited to a headcount of the population and "does not prohibit the gathering of other statistics, if 'necessary and proper,' for the intelligent exercise of other powers enumerated in the constitution, and in such case there could be no objection to acquiring this information through the same machinery by which the population is enumerated." United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).

In 2000, another District Court agreed and found that it there is no constitutional limit on collecting additional data, when necessary for governance. That court also said responses to census questions are not a violation of a citizen's right to privacy or speech. Morales v. Daley, 116 F. Supp. 2d 801, 809 and 816. (S.D. Tex. 2000). These decisions are consistent with the Supreme Court's recent description of the census as the "linchpin of the federal statistical system ... collecting data on the characteristics of individuals, households, and housing units throughout the country." Dept. of Commerce v. U.S. House of Representatives, 525 U.S. 316, 341 (1999).

    These are  legal cases giving presidence so I guess if you want to file a suit and make some attorney rich you could take it to court. Me I'd advise against it, easier to take 10 minutes and fill the thing out. Oh yes and the toilet question on the long survey that was mentioned has a practical purpose, actually more than one tho it might not apply to you and it's been included in the survey since 1940, nothing new.

                                                            Spin

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I personally can't wait for the census to be complete and the results made available. The opportunity to reapportion our state legislature and complete redistricting on the federal side is a chance to change government for the next 10 years. Don't beleive me, look at what happened to New Jersey after a failed reapportionment in 2000. We went from controlling both houses of the legislature and the Governor's mansion to being down 6 seats in the Senate and 10 seats in the Assembly and dealing with Governors such as McGreevey and Corzine. Oh yeah, we have a 30 billion dollar budget and are currently facing an 11 billion dollar deficit. That wouldn't be so bad if the entire discretionary portion of the budget wasn't only 8 billion dollars. So yeah, I've been waiting for this census for the last 10 years.

For those of you living in rural areas, you should be doing all you can to make certain that you and your neighbors are counted. The vast majority of money for obtaining the census is spent on counting the traditionally under-represented. That means the inner cities.

As for the black helicopter nonsense...don't answer any question you don't want to answer. However, there is no reason or justificatio nfor not participating in the basic census.

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PartridgeCartridge
I personally can't wait for the census to be complete and the results made available. The opportunity to reapportion our state legislature and complete redistricting on the federal side is a chance to change government for the next 10 years. Don't beleive me, look at what happened to New Jersey after a failed reapportionment in 2000. We went from controlling both houses of the legislature and the Governor's mansion to being down 6 seats in the Senate and 10 seats in the Assembly and dealing with Governors such as McGreevey and Corzine. Oh yeah, we have a 30 billion dollar budget and are currently facing an 11 billion dollar deficit. That wouldn't be so bad if the entire discretionary portion of the budget wasn't only 8 billion dollars. So yeah, I've been waiting for this census for the last 10 years.

For those of you living in rural areas, you should be doing all you can to make certain that you and your neighbors are counted. The vast majority of money for obtaining the census is spent on counting the traditionally under-represented. That means the inner cities.

As for the black helicopter nonsense...don't answer any question you don't want to answer. However, there is no reason or justificatio nfor not participating in the basic census.

Yep.

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Hunshatt · Posted on Mar. 08 2010,10:39

Spin, the fact that you went to all the trouble, to look all that crap up, troubles me.......

 Tim you have a point, I need to get out more often. I'm ready for Spring.

  I was going to let the subject pass but folks have been forwarding so much misinformation. A lot of people don't want to deal with census workers knocking at thier doors asking questions, or leaving notices but don't realize that it's when they don't fill out the form or leave it incomplete, or give obvious bogus answers - That's when the census workers start making up close and personel appearances.  There's alot of partyline sentiment inferred, anti big government or anti federal interference etc yet most don't know that

Jefferson (the champion of many who oppose big government) was a great supporter of the census and acted as the chief official presiding over the first census. Also the 2010 census is very close to the length of the 1790 census making it pretty much the shortest in the history of the country.

                             Goin' Downstairs to Make Some Coffee

                                                           Spin

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I got the letter yesterday stating that I'll be getting my census next week. Money well spent :oops:
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I got the letter yesterday stating that I'll be getting my census next week. Money well spent :oops:

Hey, it took paper, and paper takes trees, and trees take loggers, and....

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