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Only buying American for 1 year


settersmt

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To echo Bosco's third paragraph, there are far more patent applications in motion in China than in the US.  So much for being technologically advanced.

Interesting.  I'm surprised, but encouraged that the Chinese shared that information.  Source?

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DonS, in my experience it is patently false that "they" have technology behind us, or that we have more experience.

Bosco, I'll concede to gross ignorance IRT the garment industry, but that is a very small subset of the total economic picture and I don't think its safe to form conclusions about the economy as a whole from it.

For what it is worth, for the past 30 years I've earned a very comfortable living derived solely from the export of US manufactured products.  Still am and business is better than it has ever been. I can't name the industry but it is largely high tech, is extremely competitive internationally - and, yes, the competion is more often than not heavily subsidized by their governments.  This may bias my viewpoint but from where I sit, we can and will successfully compete with any country in this world if we can just avoid self inflicted wounds.

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bosco mctavitch

Don, I can't speak FOR Marty, but I do know that he owns his own design and manufacturing business and works with a number of manufacturing facilities in the US and Asia so he has a quite good handle on the topic from a different perspective.  I work in sales and product development for a foreign company that also does a lot of manufacturing in a variety of different fields all over the world--including both the US, Eastern and Western Europe and lots in China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.  I have no idea about any segment of any technology business so I can't comment, but I think it's apparent that there are different situations in different areas.

Taking a step back for a moment, I looked to see if I could figure out where people spend their money--found this, HERE:

wheredidthemoneygo.jpg

I don't know that this is a priority list, but it at least gives me some idea of the relative size of various market segments with regard to contributing to our national economy.  

I guess my questions at this point are 1) what are the industries we need in order to maintain our health and well being as a country without becoming beholden to foreign interests, 2) how can we continue to grow and support the ones we need to KEEP at home, and 3) how can we get back the ones we need but have largely lost.  I don't necessarily think this would reflect the same priorities that the pie chart would seem to show, but it seems like this would be a more productive conversation to be having.

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I don't know that this is a priority list, but it at least gives me some idea of the relative size of various market segments with regard to contributing to our national economy.  

I guess my questions at this point are 1) what are the industries we need in order to maintain our health and well being as a country without becoming beholden to foreign interests, 2) how can we continue to grow and support the ones we need to KEEP at home, and 3) how can we get back the ones we need but have largely lost.  I don't necessarily think this would reflect the same priorities that the pie chart would seem to show, but it seems like this would be a more productive conversation to be having.

Help me understand - is it your contention that we should work hard and avoid self inflicted wounds but only in targeted areas of the economy?

Maybe what we need most is a shared understanding of the term "compete".

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Not daring to step between PC and Mr Steese,

Big John,

I'm flattered to be mistaken for Mr. Steese, but in the interest of full disclosure - I'm a different Don S.  I would gladly continue the deception if it would yield an invitation  to a field trip with Mr. Hong and his bird finder.   If Mr. Steese is pudgy, bespectacled and cue ball bald, with a pure white moustache to balance the chrome dome, the ruse might work.    

Best,

The Other Don

:)  you both seem like pretty good guys and i guess i figgered it out after reading what it is you do in Northern VA.

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bosco mctavitch

I don't know that this is a priority list, but it at least gives me some idea of the relative size of various market segments with regard to contributing to our national economy.  

I guess my questions at this point are 1) what are the industries we need in order to maintain our health and well being as a country without becoming beholden to foreign interests, 2) how can we continue to grow and support the ones we need to KEEP at home, and 3) how can we get back the ones we need but have largely lost.  I don't necessarily think this would reflect the same priorities that the pie chart would seem to show, but it seems like this would be a more productive conversation to be having.

Help me understand - is it your contention that we should work hard and avoid self inflicted wounds but only in targeted areas of the economy?

Maybe what we need most is a shared understanding of the term "compete".

DonS, I dug that up because you seemed to suggest that clothing was a relatively small % of the total economy compared to electronics.  I didn't know, so I dug that up.  I don't mean to suggest we should ONLY do it in targeted areas, but that since we're talking about our buying decisions it might be interesting to see where we are spending our money and gauge where within that look we are doing well or lacking in choices for American made goods.  

My thought was that if the goal is to stimulate the overall economy and create a higher level of security for ourselves, that a look like that might reveal some different thought processes that could "maximaze" the effectiveness of that effort.

Compete--to me that means can we stand shoulder to shoulder next to our competitors and consistently show that we stand a good shot at having people choose to buy from us vs from them in a way that is healthy and sustainable.  

Perhaps we might also define what you mean by "self-inflicted wounds".  Depending on how you think of that it could cover a very, very wide range of things.

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DonS, I dug that up because you seemed to suggest that clothing was a relatively small % of the total economy compared to electronics.  I didn't know, so I dug that up.  I don't mean to suggest we should ONLY do it in targeted areas, but that since we're talking about our buying decisions it might be interesting to see where we are spending our money and gauge where within that look we are doing well or lacking in choices for American made goods.  

My thought was that if the goal is to stimulate the overall economy and create a higher level of security for ourselves, that a look like that might reveal some different thought processes that could "maximaze" the effectiveness of that effort.

No offense, Bosco, but you are losing me here.  I don't believe I singled out the electronics component of the economy, and I am certain that I wasn't suggesting any artificial "stimulus".   Just economic competition.  In fact, "stimulus" would be an example of the self inflicted wounds that I was suggesting we avoid - one man's stimulus is another's hemorage.

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bosco mctavitch
Bosco, I'll concede to gross ignorance IRT the garment industry, but that is a very small subset of the total economic picture and I don't think its safe to form conclusions about the economy as a whole from it.

For what it is worth, for the past 30 years I've earned a very comfortable living derived solely from the export of US manufactured products.  Still am and business is better than it has ever been. I can't name the industry but it is largely high tech, is extremely competitive internationally - and, yes, the competion is more often than not heavily subsidized by their governments.  This may bias my viewpoint but from where I sit, we can and will successfully compete with any country in this world if we can just avoid self inflicted wounds.

Don, this is the comment I was referring to--perhaps I read too much into it.  

I did not mean to suggest any stimulus per se...not sure I understand your comment?

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Don, this is the comment I was referring to--perhaps I read too much into it.  

I did not mean to suggest any stimulus per se...not sure I understand your comment?

For sure - no reference at all to electronics.

IRT stimulus, I guess it was the "My thought was that if the goal is to stimulate the overall economy"  that threw me off.  Coupled with targeted selection of specific components of demand.  

Are we in agreement the US has the most capable workforce in the world today, and is perfectly capable of successfully competing for work so long as artificial burdens and impediments are not placed in their way?

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I believe China is a house of cards that will collapse someday.  Not sure when but history has shown time and time again that their economic model does not work in the long run. There was a time in the 80's people thought Japan was going to take over our economy and crush us, well that did not happen. We do live in a globalized world and will face competition from many fronts. We as a country do have many issues to address but in the long run I will still put my money on the US over any other country.
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bosco mctavitch

no, we're not in agreement on that.  

What does capable mean?  If it means well-educated, well, there's a lot of ways to measure that but in general our schools are not exactly known for their impeccable success and the average joe doesn't end up at the best ones most of the time.  If by willing to work hard, etc, all I hear from the old-timers is that people have forgotten how to work hard, we rely on too many entitlements, etc.  Many people I know have an extremely strong work ethic, but no one I know puts in the hours that are common in some of the asseembly-line production facilities in Asia (and that's ok).  so...no, I don't necessarily think we are lacking in that department, but I do not think it is at all safe to say that we have the "most capable" workforce in the world.  I DON'T think we are really lacking in this department, but I do think it unwise to be unrealistic about it.

As far as being able to compete, you added a pretty big caveat--"so long as artificial burdens and impediments are not placed in their way".  Well...this is reality, there are ALWAYS going to be artificial burdens and impediments in the way if by that you are referring to a mimimum wage and environmental regs in the US different from other countries, the complicated system of tax breaks and other subsidies in some industries that already exists in our country and in others, duties in other countries affecting our goods, other governments artifically affecting the value of their currency relative to ours, etc.  I simply don't think it's even worth talking about a world without those things because it isn't going to happen.  If that's not what you mean, then I'm all ears.  

The "stimulus" I was referring to was simply the result of our collectively choosing to spend in a way that gives our own country the most benefit.

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I came of age in the '60s and my old man was convinced I was an anarchist. So in keeping with my moral turpidity I suggest all you folks with them foreign scatter guns, ship them to me post haste, lest you become confused as to your patriotic duty!
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but I do not think it is at all safe to say that we have the "most capable" workforce in the world.  I DON'T think we are really lacking in this department, but I do think it unwise to be unrealistic about it.

You can't be the most entitled population in the world and the most capable workforce at the same time.  We think we are "owed work", "owed healthcare", "owed retirement".  That is not charecteristic of the "most capable"

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no, we're not in agreement on that.  

What does capable mean?  If it means well-educated, well, there's a lot of ways to measure that but in general our schools are not exactly known for their impeccable success and the average joe doesn't end up at the best ones most of the time.  If by willing to work hard, etc, all I hear from the old-timers is that people have forgotten how to work hard, we rely on too many entitlements, etc.  Many people I know have an extremely strong work ethic, but no one I know puts in the hours that are common in some of the asseembly-line production facilities in Asia (and that's ok).  so...no, I don't necessarily think we are lacking in that department, but I do not think it is at all safe to say that we have the "most capable" workforce in the world.  I DON'T think we are really lacking in this department, but I do think it unwise to be unrealistic about it.

As far as being able to compete, you added a pretty big caveat--"so long as artificial burdens and impediments are not placed in their way".  Well...this is reality, there are ALWAYS going to be artificial burdens and impediments in the way if by that you are referring to a mimimum wage and environmental regs in the US different from other countries, the complicated system of tax breaks and other subsidies in some industries that already exists in our country and in others, duties in other countries affecting our goods, other governments artifically affecting the value of their currency relative to ours, etc.  I simply don't think it's even worth talking about a world without those things because it isn't going to happen.  If that's not what you mean, then I'm all ears.  

The "stimulus" I was referring to was simply the result of our collectively choosing to spend in a way that gives our own country the most benefit.

If we can't agree on the meaning of the terms "capable" or "compete" we may not be able to agree on much!

But FWIW, you may have missed my point - which was focused on avoiding self inflicted wounds in our own country, vice on lamenting the shenanigans of others.  As MTRookie76  hit at, governmental intervention aimed at giving a given country's citizens an unfair economic advantage in the short run, invariably works counter to that intent in the long run.  Got yen? Drachmas?  

We have the capacity to out compete every other country in this world.  If we don't mess it up.

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