Jump to content

Only buying American for 1 year


Recommended Posts

bosco mctavitch
We have the capacity to out compete every other country in this world.  If we don't mess it up.

Ok, I'm skeptical but I'm listening.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 84
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • DonS


  • bosco mctavitch


  • rprovines


  • martyg


I guess there are all ways of avoiding the obvious.  US tax burdens and policies are far more business friendly than most of the industrialized countries doing better than us at keeping manufacturing jobs at home.  Those that think that Canada doesn't tax businesses, or Germany doesn't have strong unions are simply in cloud cookoo land.  The truth is that some of the countries that are running trade surpluses with us and keeping their manufacturing bases put much heavier burdens on business to be socially responsible.   American businesses have it easy.  

As for American workers, well they are the most productive in the world.  More productive than the chinese, or japanese, or europeans.  I would put US workers and quality against Chinese in almost every area.  

What is different in American companies versus European or Asian companies is the huge disparity in salary between top management and labor.   American CEOs are by far the best paid in the world- at least three times as much as their nearest competitors.

American factory workers are not even close.  American wages for labor have been in decline for forty years.  In the 1960s, a household could sustain a reasonable middle class living with one income.  That's almost impossible today - most households require two incomes to do that.  Lately, even two incomes won't do that - hence the housing crisis.  

What American CEOs have found is that they can maximize their profits by minimizing labor costs - and lowering quality.  This works as long as everyone in a US industry does it. In many of these industries there hasn't been a choice between a high quality American product and a lower quality import for thirty years.  This increases short term profit for company owners and executives because they generally don't sell most of these goods at a substantial discount.  These are cheaply made goods, but they aren't necessarily cheap. So profits for the owners and the top management continues to rise, while they are able to push labor wages down because American workers are now forced to compete with mexican and chinese workers at their wages.  This is at the heart of why the gap between the rich and the poor has grown so vast over the last thirty years - and why it is much wider than most other developed nations.  

What these MBA whiz kids forgot in their race to be the biggest pigs at the trough is that their American workers are also their customers.  Henry Ford knew this - but they stopped teaching it in business schools.  If they don't make enough money, they can't buy all those products.  It is no surprise that one of the key elements of this economic correction is that Americans are not buying like they did, they are reducing their indebtedness, and they are coming to realize that the American economy is not providing the standard of living that their fathers had and that their personal economic situation is in decline.  

This all has very little to do with US labor or know how.  ( I should note that most of those folks creating this technology in China and elsewhere were educated at US universities.)  It has to do with the idiocy of top management and the greed of corporations that care more about short term profit than the economic health of the US.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Those that think that Canada doesn't tax businesses,

Okay, I'm dumb, but at least I'll admit it. So when I see something I suspect is dumb, I check it out. A couple of quick googles reveals -


Corporate Income Tax »

Business Income Tax Rates

Business Income Tax Rates Canada

Effective January 1, 2010 the corporate income tax rate falls to 18% from 21% before January 2008. Yearly tax reductions will see the corporate income tax rate fall to 15% as of January 1, 2012. These corporate income tax reductions, says the Department of Finance Canada, will give Canadian corporations the lowest tax rate on new business investment in the Group of Seven (G7) by 2011 and the lowest statutory tax rate in the G7 by 2012.

The corporate tax rate will decrease as follows:

21% before January …

Tax Installment »

Corporate Tax Installment

Corporate Tax Installment Canada

For corporate tax installment, the instalment threshold will triple from $1000 to $3000, so that corporations will not have to pay corporate income tax by instalment unless their total tax liability is more than $3000.

Small Canadian-controlled private corporations (CCPCs) that are required to pay tax instalments may make those tax instalments quarterly rather than monthly if they meet certain conditions, such as having a taxable income for either the current or previous year that does not exceed $400,000 and having qualified for the small business tax deduction …


And then, from Wiki-

Tax rates

For regular income tax purposes, a system of graduated marginal tax rates is applied to all taxable income, including capital gains. Through 2010, the marginal tax rates on a corporation's taxable income are as follows:

Taxable Income ($)     Tax Rate[22]

0 to 50,000     15%

50,000 to 75,000     $7,500 + 25% Of the amount over 50,000

75,000 to 100,000     $13,750 + 34% Of the amount over 75,000

100,000 to 335,000     $22,250 + 39% Of the amount over 100,000

335,000 to 10,000,000     $113,900 + 34% Of the amount over 335,000

10,000,000 to 15,000,000     $3,400,000 + 35% Of the amount over 10,000,000

15,000,000 to 18,333,333     $5,150,000 + 38% Of the amount over 15,000,000

18,333,333 and up     35%

This rate structure produces a flat 34% tax rate on incomes from $335,000 to $10,000,000, gradually increasing to a flat rate of 35% on incomes above $18,333,333.

[edit] Tax credits

Corporations, like other businesses, may be eligible for various tax credits which reduce Federal, state or local income tax.[23] The largest of these by dollar volume is the Federal foreign tax credit.[24][25] This credit is allowed to all taxpayers for income taxes paid to foreign countries. The credit is limited to that part of Federal income tax before other credits generated by foreign source taxable income. The credit is intended to mitigate taxation of the same income to the same taxpayer by two or more countries, and has been a feature of the U.S. system since 1918. Other credits include credits for certain wage payments, credits for investments in certain types of assets including certain motor vehicles, credits for use of alternative fuels and off-highway vehicle use, natural resource related credits, and others.[26]


Link to post
Share on other sites
What American CEOs have found is that they can maximize their profits by minimizing labor costs - and lowering quality.

He is still a bit confused, I think he meant governments.  You know where there are prevailing wages so a road construction person is making $50/hour off of someone elses taxes, and they private owner doing driveways and parking lots is struggling to make a living paying double taxes (business and personal).  Or that fact that almost every industry shed many jobs with the recession, but American government jobs have added 2% during the same time period.  Or the fact that private workers get to keep working til they are 65 while most government workers get to retire after 20-30 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for helping me out there. See, now I wouldn't have caught all that. Well, I did have some other thoughts, but a bit of a family emergency had me pressed for time, so I just looked at the one point I was pretty sure someone was full of BS on.

But, like I said,

Okay, I'm dumb, but at least I'll admit it.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess there are all ways of avoiding the obvious.  US tax burdens and policies are far more business friendly than most of the industrialized countries doing better than us at keeping manufacturing jobs at home.  

It has to do with the idiocy of top management and the greed of corporations that care more about short term profit than the economic health of the US.

So enlighten us, sir.  How do the Germans (who, by the way, will be pleasantly surprised to learn that their world market share is increasing!) and the rest of the less free world avoid the greed that causes our business to flee, despite the superior operating environment that we have provided them?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Don, I can't speak FOR Marty, but I do know that he owns his own design and manufacturing business and works with a number of manufacturing facilities in the US and Asia so he has a quite good handle on the topic from a different perspective.  I work in sales and product development for a foreign company that also does a lot of manufacturing in a variety of different fields all over the world--including both the US, Eastern and Western Europe and lots in China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.  I have no idea about any segment of any technology business so I can't comment, but I think it's apparent that there are different situations in different areas.

Taking a step back for a moment, I looked to see if I could figure out where people spend their money--found this, HERE:


I don't know that this is a priority list, but it at least gives me some idea of the relative size of various market segments with regard to contributing to our national economy.  

I guess my questions at this point are 1) what are the industries we need in order to maintain our health and well being as a country without becoming beholden to foreign interests, 2) how can we continue to grow and support the ones we need to KEEP at home, and 3) how can we get back the ones we need but have largely lost.  I don't necessarily think this would reflect the same priorities that the pie chart would seem to show, but it seems like this would be a more productive conversation to be having.

Some of those numbers are surprising.  Is that giving number accurate? Only 3.7% ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Not daring to step between PC and Mr Steese,

Big John,

I'm flattered to be mistaken for Mr. Steese, but in the interest of full disclosure - I'm a different Don S.  I would gladly continue the deception if it would yield an invitation  to a field trip with Mr. Hong and his bird finder.   If Mr. Steese is pudgy, bespectacled and cue ball bald, with a pure white moustache to balance the chrome dome, the ruse might work.    


The Other Don

There is but ONE Don Steese in existence, and I got him cornered in Saskatchewan.

Good thread, I think. If you all would take the emotion of "us vs them" out of the discussion, it would be far more realistic.

Carry on!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Create New...