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quailguy

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air....mongers

 Most lefty documentaries I watch seem like obvious nonsense: Michael Moore's movies, "Food Inc ", and "Tapped".

But a new one, the oscar-nominated "Gasland", had me thinking that there might be something to its claims. It shows video of people holding a match to water coming out of their faucet - and the water bursts into flames. The film blamed "fracking", a process used to extract natural gas that supposedly leaks chemicals into water.

Surely if water catches fire, something is wrong. But as I write in my syndicated column this week, it turns out that the film misleads:

The best fire scene in the movie was shot in Colorado, where the filmmaker is in the kitchen of a man who lights his faucet. But Colorado investigators went to that man's house, checked out his well and found that fracking had nothing to do with his water catching fire. His well-digger had drilled into a naturally occurring methane pocket.

"There are lots of naturally causing effects that occur," says Matthew Brouillette of the Commonwealth Foundation, a think tank in Pennsylvania - where much of the film was shot. "It's really no surprise. We find that 40 percent of the wells in Pennsylvania have some sort of naturally occurring methane gas and other types of things." ...

Filmmaker Josh Fox concedes that the states concluded that the fire wasn't caused by fracking, but he says the government regulators collude with industry , or don't use good science...

Frankly, I'm skeptical of all of them: lefty moviemakers who smear companies, companies with economic interests at stake and the regulators, who are often cozy with industry and lack essential knowledge. The surest environmental protectors are property rights - and courts that assign liability to polluters.

Read the rest of the column to hear why "fracking" is a wonderful thing.

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L. Gallagher

This just came across the wire here in Michigan:

Michigan Regulators Will Set New Requirements For Companies That Produce Natural Gas

Posted On: 5/25/2011

Michigan regulators will be setting new requirement for energy companies that produce natural gas using a method called "fracking" according to the Associated Press.

Fracking is a term for hydraulic fracturing.

Fracking is the process of pumping water, sand and chemicals in the ground to access rock layer cracks that will allow gas to escape.

The Associated Press says documents show that energy companies will be required to make sure water they are taking for fracking will not harm surface waters or wells.

In order to insure they are not harming water companies will use a computer system.

Companies will also be required to say what chemicals they use for their fracking, except the ones they classify as trade secrets.

Environmental groups say the process could harm streams and groundwater.

The Department of Environmental Quality says Michigan oil and gas companies have used fracking on an estimated 12,000 wells since 1960 without harming the environment.

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ANF grousin

Dont trust the snake oil salesbitch.  This is the same woman that put and end to bear hunting in Jersey.... because they are cute.  I didnt watch the video, but read about it.  The EPA studies wont be done until 2012.  Watch for the feds to use the study to take control from the states where fracking in concerned.

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BigHink66
Bob

You and Joe are welcome to come here any time you wish, in the last month I have found more cover than I could hunt in 3 years. So if it gets real bad, back your bags,steal Riley and come on up. I would say bring Mark along, but I have a hard time finding enough Guinness for my self. There is no way I could find enough for the two of us.

Do I have to bring Joe?

Ok guys, in your opinion on gas fracking just consider one aspect;  water use.  I've looked at numerous well sites.  Each site is permitted to use "FOUR MILLION GALLONS OF WATER PER DAY!.  Read that again.  Four million gallons PER DAY PER SITE!  Just one well pad.  Where the phuck you think that water is coming from and where is it going to?

It's not like the old vertical gas well anymore.

They often recycle the water.  That way they don't have to pay for treatment and purchase new water.

You can't just draw 4 million gallons from the creek down the road.  No one can.

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BigHink66
Farmers and sewage treatment plants are the biggest polluters of our waterways yet get a free ride.  

Sewage treatment plants put water back into local streams after its been treated.  Its cleaner than what is in the stream.

They sometimes overflow during rain events that send enough effluent to them that they cannot handle.  They have permits regulating this and sewage plant doesn't overflow often.

Now these old sewage systems have designed release points that might overflow everytime it rains more than a half an inch.  Alot of systems in urban areas such as Pittsburgh and Philly were built over 100 years ago and weren't meant to carry the load they have today.  Not too mention they were originally designed as combination sewers handling storm and sewage and were meant to discharge in the river.

You want to talk money, we can't afford to stop these overflows.  We are trying to regulate and reduce, but you'd never bring home a cent from your paycheck if we had to raise taxes to the point required to upgrade.

On a planning level we are looking out to 50 years in attempt to significantly reduce not eliminate overflows.

Besides that, during storms most of that discharge is highly diluted.

As for farmers, I don't know.  But 100 cows shitting in the creek daily has got to be worse than an overflow once a month.

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Almost Heaven GSP's
Farmers and sewage treatment plants are the biggest polluters of our waterways yet get a free ride.  

Sewage treatment plants put water back into local streams after its been treated.  Its cleaner than what is in the stream.

As for farmers, I don't know.  But 100 cows shitting in the creek daily has got to be worse than an overflow once a month.

Not sure that I'd completely agree with the first premise based on the inability to completely remove Pharmaceuticals and hormones such as Estrogen from the water during treatment, including after Reverse Osmosis.

However, I do agree that as a Country, we can't afford to replace/repair our infrastructure currently. Communities are going broke trying in Western MD.

Most farmers I know, keep the cattle out of the creeks and rivers in as much as possible, so the biggest problem there seems to be the heavy doses of Nitrogen leaching in from adjacent soil. Many also receive Federal $$$ for maintaining waterway buffer zones/strips. However, I doubt that is everywhere, though that is the case around here due to the effects on the Chesapeake Bay from the runoff way up here in the mountains.

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L. Gallagher

"They often recycle the water.  That way they don't have to pay for treatment and purchase new water."

That's not the case in Michigan, where everybody thinks we have unlimited amounts of freshwater. They aren't buying it and they aren't treating it.

They drill a freshwater well at the well site, take what they need for the fracking process, dump it into a nearby lined brine pit for temporary disposal, then eventually pump it out, truck it down the road, which takes dozens of trucks, and pump it back down a drilled dry hole on land they either own or have leased but aren't planning to develop...

Where it sits for eternity, I guess. There are already more than 300 of these dump wells just in northern Michigan from the shallow Antrim wells present in the tip of the mitt. Statewide, there are undoubtedly thousands of them, with an average drilled depth of 2000 feet.

The question then becomes, what happens if that well casing ever cracks and leaks??

Good question.

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Dave Gowdey
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air....mongers

 Most lefty documentaries I watch seem like obvious nonsense: Michael Moore's movies, "Food Inc ", and "Tapped".

But a new one, the oscar-nominated "Gasland", had me thinking that there might be something to its claims. It shows video of people holding a match to water coming out of their faucet - and the water bursts into flames. The film blamed "fracking", a process used to extract natural gas that supposedly leaks chemicals into water.

Surely if water catches fire, something is wrong. But as I write in my syndicated column this week, it turns out that the film misleads:

The best fire scene in the movie was shot in Colorado, where the filmmaker is in the kitchen of a man who lights his faucet. But Colorado investigators went to that man's house, checked out his well and found that fracking had nothing to do with his water catching fire. His well-digger had drilled into a naturally occurring methane pocket.

"There are lots of naturally causing effects that occur," says Matthew Brouillette of the Commonwealth Foundation, a think tank in Pennsylvania - where much of the film was shot. "It's really no surprise. We find that 40 percent of the wells in Pennsylvania have some sort of naturally occurring methane gas and other types of things." ...

Filmmaker Josh Fox concedes that the states concluded that the fire wasn't caused by fracking, but he says the government regulators collude with industry , or don't use good science...

Frankly, I'm skeptical of all of them: lefty moviemakers who smear companies, companies with economic interests at stake and the regulators, who are often cozy with industry and lack essential knowledge. The surest environmental protectors are property rights - and courts that assign liability to polluters.

Read the rest of the column to hear why "fracking" is a wonderful thing.

Just another piece of propaganda to prove what we already know - that Stossel is an idiot.  

The state sent what kind of investigators, the one's whose salaries are paid by industry permitting fees?  And how did they account for the fact that the well wasn't burning until fracking started?  Magic, I guess.  

These folks claim it's just a coincidence that fracking starts and wells that haven't had problems for decades or more magically start pumping out methane in the area once the fracking gets going?  

And it isn't only that folks claim that the regulators are in the industry's pocket - it's a matter of record.   http://www.publicintegrity.org/investi....022    

There's no doubt that fracking contaminates aquifers and drinking wells.  Few geologists doubt it happens and all hydrologists will tell you it certainly can.  Can you prove it?  Well it depends upon what kind of proof you want.  If the proof is that fracking starts in an area and wells that never have had contamination problems previously all of a sudden start having them - then it's widely proven.  If you want proof that shows exactly the path that the contamination takes through the rock 9000 feet down from the injection point to the well  - well that proof is less easy to come by simply because nobody independent has ever looked.  The companies that do this stuff have no interest in proving it's dangerous, the government relies exclusively on assertions from the industry, and other independent researchers don't have the resources and equipment to conduct conclusive tests at such depths.  

You can believe that the contamination is caused by the fracking, or you can believe that it happens magically, with no connection to industry activities - either way, test your well water because once fracking starts it's inevitable that contaminated water will show up.

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tnwestes

I'm surprised this thread is still going.  Same one got shut down in no time about a month ago.  I said it in that thread, and I'll say it again: balance is what we need here.

The more reputable and larger companies have been releasing the compositions of their respective frac fluids....

EQT's fluids by well and date

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ARKBRDHUNTER

I live in the middle of the Fayetteville Shale play in Arkansas. In my opinion it is like everything else, good and bad.

The large truck traffic destroy the roads, cause accidents, and make commutes longer than they should be. The fracturing creates well issues and probably other problems we don't know about yet.

On the other hand it does create jobs, revenue for land owners, many of whom have worked their entire lives trying to scratch out a living on their small farms. For these people I am very happy as they will not have to sweat out whether they can buy groceries and live the remainder of their lives somewhat secure financially.

The pads and connecting pipelines initially offer transitional habitat for quail which probably sways my opinion more than most.

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cthemfly25

Fracking extraction is ahead of environmental oversight.  The toxic chemical infusion can cause serious and lasting problems.  The fracking technology is now being adapted for oil extraction in Texas straining water resources in two ways---diversion of massive amounts of water and residual toxic pollution of the water table.  

Problems associated with surface efforts can be resolved.  Problems with residual and long-lasting pollution of ground water is dangerous.  I'm all for drilling but the gas and oil companies are in a race against oversight.  I suppose what bothers me is that these companies don't take it upon themselves to extract responsibly.  And, just so you know, I'm all for drill baby drill....but do it right.

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Briarscratch

NY sues Feds over gas drilling - WSJ

"The federal government has an obligation to undertake the necessary studies,'' Mr. Schneiderman said in a statement. "The welfare of those living near the Delaware River Basin, as well as the millions of New Yorkers who rely on its pure drinking water each day, will not be ignored.''

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Cold Iron

I just got back yesterday afternoon from spending a week in the Twin Tiers. First time in 2 years, what a shock. Before that I was back in Bradford, Tioga and Potter for youth deer, pheasant and then a couple of weeks grouse hunting with my son, FIL and I- 3 generations grouse hunting every year. Some of the happiest days of my life. And every year before that when I was stateside on the East Coast I would return for hunting and occasionally for trout fishing.

Took my girlfriend who is no wallflower. She hikes the bluffs of Mn .and Wi. couple of times a week summer and winter. She tent camps for a week in Grand Marias and another week at a friends place on Devils Track Lake just outside BWCA. Last year she spent a week tent camping with me in below freezing weather around Silver Bay while I grouse hunted. Taught her to fly fish last summer and she caught 21 trout first time out on the water. So anyhow I cut down from the North through Shinglehouse in NW Potter County to Coudy and hit 6 then headed East to Wellsboro. By the time I got near Colton Point she asked when WE were going to move there. Caught me off guard but should have expected it asking her to a family reunion. After she spent a couple of days in Wellsboro she was in love with the place but who wouldn't be?  

I always thought after I retired from the military I would return and hunt and fish there at the ripe old age of 40. The Ex was from Bradford County and hated the Twin Tiers- said it was economically depressed and depressing in general. Heck I always thought Bradford County was the high rent district, but for 25 years I was her ticket out of there. Now I am free to return or at least once my sons are healthy and on their own will be.

I am still reeling from the changes. 2 years ago they were just starting to talk about fracking and now trucks and well pads are everywhere. At first I thought coal was back but found out it was sand trucks needed for the slurry used in fracking. And of course the water trucks. New roads everywhere and many dirt roads are now paved. I really have mixed feelings. Worst was seeing wind turbines on the top of the ridges, see enough of them around here in Mn. All of my friends and family are thrilled with the job opportunities and everyone says the same, it is progress. Yes it is. But it has me nervous. I am not paying taxes in Pa. or own land there so don’t feel right making a judgment either way. But the change is huge to me after more than 50 years. Lenard Harrison and Nesmunk (Sears) to my recollection wrote a lot about progress and asked at what price. I used to think a lot of that stuff was just tree hugging garbage. Not so sure any more. I took 4 nephews and one sisters husband skeet shooting Sunday at one of the gun clubs to introduce them to shotgun sports. The road by the sportsman club is in the process of being paved and there is a well head at the entrance. I don’t see an effect on game but certainly do on road traffic. Having spent time as a Nuclear Engineer would like to think there is a better solution to the Energy situation and believe there is. But that isn’t going to happens soon. Everyone seems very happy with the money flow and I certainly can’t blame them. But the landscape has changed dramatically.

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Almost Heaven GSP's

An interesting take from the view of tomorrow's generation: Not So Fast

A pdf of their full research paper: Mountain Ridge H.S. Research Paper

Granted, this was done by High School Students, with the influence of their Teacher, but very well done really and provides the opinion of the youth today whom will live with the results of our choices today as adults "tomorrow".

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