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Marcellus Shale

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ANF grousin
Interesting how the vast majority is against fracking and want to push it out to the future, but they cant wait to get their greedy little hands on the tax money to spend.

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Almost Heaven GSP's

Jeff,

Just curious; Would your opinion on the Tax change if it meant a reduction in your Property Tax? Personal Property Tax? School District Taxes? Sales Tax?

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for so disliking a Tax on the extraction; Could you elaborate why you feel this way?

I hate taxes as much as and maybe even more than everyone else but the Government, but I'm not sure I understand where such a Tax would be a bad thing.

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ANF grousin

A tax is an intrusion into someones wallet.  Governments piss away money faster then 3 drunks at a bar using the same urinal.  A 5% tax today will need to be upped to 8% in two years to cover the increased spending that will come with the tax.  Taxing is wealth distribution, nothing more, nothing less.  If you want something, earn it yourself; dont go looking for big brother to beat it out of someone and give it to you.

You admit **** plants are stream polluters.  Why should there be a tax on gas extraction to pay for that.  That is your problem, not the gas companies.  They should be made to pay for their pollution, not yours.  If you dont have money for sewer upgrades, why dont you raise your own rates.  Oh I forgot, you're broke, so screw someone or some company out of their hard earned money so you dont have that responsibility.

Remember I posted and it was agreed, Pa has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country.  I havent seen anyone suggest bringing them down if there is a tax on gas.  Its all about, spend, spend, spend.

Pa. allowed gambling a few years back with profits to bring down school taxes.  Care to guess how well that is working out?

Pa was one of the states that got money from the tobacco settlement a few years back.  Hundreds of millions, a year.  That money was going to fund anti-smoking programs, and to help pay insurance for people who were working, but couldnt afford health insurance.  The money ran out, and the program was ended.  Politician were screaming how the new governor was screwing over people letting their insurances drop, and we needed a tax to keep that program going.  What they didnt tell you was they pissed away all that settlement money into the general budget, which is why there was no more money for low cost insurance.

Want your school taxes to go down?  Start demanding public schools live within a real budget, not in fantasy land where they keep raising taxes "for the kids".  If companies worked like schools, we'd all be standing in the unemployment line.

Its time for governments to live within the money they have coming in from current taxes, not look to see what new taxes we could add on so we can keep spending money to buy more votes.

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Kansas Big Dog
A tax is an intrusion into someones wallet.  Governments piss away money faster then 3 drunks at a bar using the same urinal.  A 5% tax today will need to be upped to 8% in two years to cover the increased spending that will come with the tax.  Taxing is wealth distribution, nothing more, nothing less.  If you want something, earn it yourself; dont go looking for big brother to beat it out of someone and give it to you.

You admit **** plants are stream polluters.  Why should there be a tax on gas extraction to pay for that.  That is your problem, not the gas companies.  They should be made to pay for their pollution, not yours.  If you dont have money for sewer upgrades, why dont you raise your own rates.  Oh I forgot, you're broke, so screw someone or some company out of their hard earned money so you dont have that responsibility.

Remember I posted and it was agreed, Pa has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country.  I havent seen anyone suggest bringing them down if there is a tax on gas.  Its all about, spend, spend, spend.

Pa. allowed gambling a few years back with profits to bring down school taxes.  Care to guess how well that is working out?

Pa was one of the states that got money from the tobacco settlement a few years back.  Hundreds of millions, a year.  That money was going to fund anti-smoking programs, and to help pay insurance for people who were working, but couldnt afford health insurance.  The money ran out, and the program was ended.  Politician were screaming how the new governor was screwing over people letting their insurances drop, and we needed a tax to keep that program going.  What they didnt tell you was they pissed away all that settlement money into the general budget, which is why there was no more money for low cost insurance.

Want your school taxes to go down?  Start demanding public schools live within a real budget, not in fantasy land where they keep raising taxes "for the kids".  If companies worked like schools, we'd all be standing in the unemployment line.

Its time for governments to live within the money they have coming in from current taxes, not look to see what new taxes we could add on so we can keep spending money to buy more votes.

ANF,

That was a hell of a rant; one I mostly agree with.   Hopefully, things will change, especially on the federal level so my kids might have a chance at the American Dream.

KBD

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L. Gallagher

In Michigan, schjools ARE being forced to run like companies. That's why teachers are being laid off, schools are being closed, while others are being consolidated, transportation is being cut, which has been proven in the past to mean that the truant officer will be very busy, and perks for both students and employees are long gone, meaning students are now seeking private schools, then leaving once educated to find work elsewhere, and teachers are leaving the state.

Yup, that's just great.

And if Michigan has a tax on fracking, I'm not sure what it's called. Have never heard of such a tax.

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ANF grousin

Linda, severance tax in Michigan is 5%-Gas; 6.6%-oil.

severance taxes

Now look at the chart in the middle to see how much more money is needed every year with all the run away spending.

More on taxes

As for public school, its about time.  They have been handed a blank check for many years with no accountability.  They are now finding out what the real world is like and not happy about it.  There is a lot of waste that can be cut from budgets, but no one wants to deal with the real issues.  Schools in my area have been losing enrollment for a long time, yet they kept adding staff.  Do you know of any private business whose sales go down but they keep adding employees?  I was at a recent SB meeting where a 1st grade teacher went on a rant because the 4 1st grade classes at their school were going to have 20 kids/class, while the other elementary school was only going to have 16 kids in their classes.  She basically demanded the SB hire another teacher to even out the class sizes.  She wasnt worried about teaching, she was worried she might have a little extra work to do.  I've seen the reading test scores from the 1st grade kids for the last five years, she should he happy she has a union to protect her job, because the kids are failing when it comes to reading.

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BigHink66

Pennsylvania doesn't tax the extraction of anything.  Not oil, gas, or coal and it goes back to the railroad days.

I have heard that some people want the tax to have a kitty in order to pay for environmental cleanup.  That to me is absurd.  It will only get spread out to other areas where it wasn't intended to go, dependance on that revenue will develop, and when the drilling is done the other taxes will need to increase to continue to pay for a bloated government.

It is far better for them to regulate and require insurance and bonding in that event.  Also to regulate the process in order to prevent the occurence of degrading drinking water.

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L. Gallagher

Attended a meeting of the county's Parks and Lands Committee yesterday where an agent for a pipeline company presented his case for the county allowing an easement across one of their pieces of forestland (we have quite a bit here, we are blessed in this county) for a flowline for brine.

He was asked if the company would disclose the contents of that brine-not the specific recipe, but just the chemical make-up, by our county's prosecuting attorney, who recently represented the county on a deep injection well court case regarding a utility who wanted to pump water contaminated from old cement kiln dust collecting at a plush resort where a cement plant was once located down a well that would be drilled here. County prosecutor said he had learned quite a bit about the drillin industry as a result. That case, btw, was dropped by the utility company that wanted to drill the well, now they are looking for other alternatives to the problem closer to the resort, which is two counties away from here.  

The agent told them no, that wasn't possible. That it's a big secret, he said-the companies are apparently concerned about competition, even though they are all fracking, so somewhere along the line they all learned what is needed to frack.

So, the county told him-no disclosure, no easement. They did offer to sign a non-disclosure statement with the company, meaning they would not reveal the contents of that brine to anyone else once it was revealed to them, but the agent said that would never be considered.

Our county has learned a lot, two of our commissioners told that agent-and they are charged with protecting the people of this county-so....

The agent was furious...got up and charged out...

The company will undoubtedly just go around the county's property with their flowline using private lands, but my county reps are satisfied that they did what the could to protect the county land, which is used by hunters, mushroom pickers, hikers, etc.

So am I...and you never know, that company may come up with the contents of that brine, right?

Not likely.

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bobman

Corporations don't pay taxes people do , it comes out of the hides of fellow citizens usaully monies that could supply 401Ks and other retirement programs pols cant get into(yet) , pay that would go to employees of the company, and anyone buying the product.

Corporations collect taxes for the govt from these groups and the fiscally ignorant are happy about it because they dont have the financial education to realize who is actaully paying the taxes.

The corporate tax idea is one of the greatest slights of hand congress has ever pulled that raises all of our effective actual taxes. Its a hidden tax on all of us period.

Whenever you hear some politician ranting about how corporations should pay more taxes recognize he is either stupid or worse realizes this and is an elitist that is in politics for his own gain and to screw the citizens.

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BigHink66

"But yesterday, under oath, EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson admitted that there have been no (as in zero) instances of ground water contamination from fracking, despite the propaganda that has convinced many progressives that fracking is a devil's bargain."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog....no.html

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Briarscratch

That's interesting, I thought that was the reason Chesapeake was fined.

DEP fines Chesapeake more than $1m.

"Under a Consent Order and Agreement, or COA, Chesapeake will pay DEP $900,000 for contaminating private water supplies in Bradford County, of which $200,000 must be dedicated to DEP’s well-plugging fund."

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Kansas Big Dog

That's interesting, I thought that was the reason Chesapeake was fined.

DEP fines Chesapeake more than $1m.

"Under a Consent Order and Agreement, or COA, Chesapeake will pay DEP $900,000 for contaminating private water supplies in Bradford County, of which $200,000 must be dedicated to DEP’s well-plugging fund."

Scratch,

It goes on to say:

"At various times throughout 2010, DEP investigated private water well complaints from residents of Bradford County’s Tuscarora, Terry, Monroe, Towanda and Wilmot townships near Chesapeake’s shale drilling operations. DEP determined that because of improper well casing and cementing in shallow zones, natural gas from non-shale shallow gas formations had experienced localized migration into groundwater and contaminated 16 families’ drinking water supplies."

So, it appears that some shallow natural gas had migrated into some water wells.  The fine for this, $900K, is not a large sum, it is most likely to be used to either correct the problem. drill new water wells, or supply water to ther folks that have natural gas seeping into their water wells.  This happens naturally from time to time also.  IMO, there was nothing environmental unsound in what the gas companies are doing, just sounds like they need to do a better job installing the shallow casing.  Had nothing to do with the deep fracking process or fluids.

KBD

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DonS
While dams on the Missouri might keep some sediment from coming down - it still flows plenty brown when it comes down here.  The problem isn't the sediment load, it's that they have so channeled the Mississippi for flood reasons (and we're seeing the human benefits right now)  that most of the sediment goes straight out the end of the river like a firehose, instead of being distributed through streams and channels into the marsh.

Dave,

I'm not a hyraulics engineer, but I thought streams generally fed into the Mississippi, not the other way around.

R,

Don

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Briarscratch
It's only water.

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DonS
It's only water.

But it seems unlikely it would flow all that far upstream, even in Louisiana or Arizona.

R,

Don

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