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Insanelupus, lets talk elk.


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Absolutely right GS. I like big, heavy arrows and broadheads. If I hadn't been given a Renegade, I'd still be shooting a PSE wheel bow like Adams shoots. Ain't speed that kills, it's penetration.
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insanelupus

I've given some serious thought to archery hunting.  But I love the boom of guns and the smell of gunpowder.  Besides, September is grouse/hun season and we have the whole month to play.  When elk season starts, our bird hunting tapers off considerably.  

But I do enjoy studying up on the bow hunter's techniques.  Recently I've started to try to do a little iron sighted handgun hunting.  It always is more fun getting closer that way!

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insanelupus

gonehuntin',

First off, I love the new Avatar!!

Second, I've given serious consideration to doing just that.  Montana has no muzzleloader season.  Idaho does, but I have a cousin in NM that would love to meet me halfway in CO and kill an elk.  

Problem is I've been spoiled.  I have a cousin that builds muzzleloaders often using original lock plates, etc.  He made a brace of pistols one time, casting his own pewter and doing his own gold inlays that were really nice.  So I'm waiting for him to make me one.  No sense of buying anything when I can get something that is as close to the "real thing" as a feller can get.

Right now it's still in the planning stages.  I'm thinking 54 or 58 caliber.  Leaning toward 58, either way, I want roundball available through Speer or Hornady, as I don't plan on casting any bullets.  Especially if the family expands in the next year or two, just won't have the time.  I'll shoot roundball (no sabots or minie balls) for sure.  I'm thinking along the lines of a half stock, percussion, thought I'm tempted with a flint.  However, I think with the percussion I'd shoot it more.  We are still planning particulars, but when it gets done, and I practice some with it, I'll be ready to seriously entertain CO muzzleloader season.  

The bonus is my cousin (Retired Lt. Col USAF) once build lazers and muzzleloaders in ABQ.  Went to work for Goodrich and got out of the business for a while.  But he measures things to the knat's ass, and I'll guarantee he won't let me have that muzzleloader until it shoots to satsify him.  Even at 65+ he can outshoot me with iron sights any day, so if it's accurate for him, it'll be great for me.  

We can however hunt elk in the Bob Marshall during the rut with rifles.  I've not worked out the particulars, but I'm looking to see just how far into the Bob a feller is required to go to meet the parameters of the tag.  I'd rather not do a pack hunt right now, maybe someday in the future, but just can't afford it or take the time.  But if I could be on a DIY hunt, then I'd love to give it a whirl!!

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Percussion's are easier to shoot than flintlocks; quicker lock time. I also shoot traditional; Thompson Renegade. I do shoot the bullets though but not sabots.

I've found this way to cut down on a pack in expense. Find an outfitter or rancher that will pack out the elk for you. Take two back packs and leap frog them in. Take your cell with you. When you get an elk down (positive attitude) call the rancher of outfitter and tell him exactly where you are. Show them on a topo before you go in. Most will do this for about $500.00 dollars; well worth it if you can afford it.

Cheapest way: develop a friendship with a guy with horses or mules.

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Cheapest way: develop a friendship with a guy with horses or mules.

Amen!  You can also rent horses.

I don't think any of Idaho's ML seasons are during the rut.  Let me know if I'm wrong.  ID has rifle seasons during the rut in the Frank Church Wilderness Area and in the Selway.

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Last I knew you are correct. Idaho's muzzle loader season is a cow hunt in Nov. Selway, Frank Church, and River of No Return are open to riffle or muzzle loader during the rut, last I knew.
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gselkhunter

You guys are talking about a tool I know very little about[Muzzleloader]. I have hunted with 2 ML guys, both long time friends. 1 was using cap and ball in 54cal, the other using a Remington inline in 54cal. The cap and ball guy I put a 320 bull infront of him at 20yds at daybreak and he didn't shoot. Said he could see his sights so he didn't pull the trigger. I didn't have a shot or I would have killed that bull with my bow.

I put three more bulls infront of him that morning, but none of them came anywhere near that 320 so he passed.

Gonehuntin don't jump out of your chair now! The other gentleman I put a 370 bull in front of him at 125yds clear shot standing dead broadside for a long time. Then he turned and gave us the other side. He had 12 cows with him and we had no way to get closer and he would come no closer to us. And my friend passed on the shot, said he wasn't comfortable with anything past 100yds. So we watched this big boy walk away. Yes we went after him, but he gave us the slip. We came up on 2 cows and a spike an hour later and the spike was taken at 70yds. The damage that the Maxi ball did was amazing.

Gselkhunter

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insanelupus

GS,

I can understand the frustration of putting bulls like that in front of folks and have them not put the elk down.  But my hat is off to them, anyone with enough discipline and fortitude to not risk a chancy shot, even though it might work out are folks I can only respect.  Much better to pass on a shot and let that bull keep breeding than to put him down and never find him, leaving him for the coyotes.

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gselkhunter

I wasn't frustrated, I felt bad for both of them. Here were 2 almost perfect situations that would have fulfilled both guys dreams. If I have a frustration, it is we have not been able to go together again. I get a huge kick out of working big bulls, I don't have to kill them. As for guys not shooting, it is the highest honnor you can pay an animal! I have seen 2 370 bulls in my 20 years. One Gary didn't shoot and the other bull[might have been the same bull] I had at at the closest about 12yds and never could get a clean shot. I didn't feel bad when I had to let him walk. I had a 340 bull 8yds behind me 3 years ago and had to let him walk. To be this close to animals of this beauty is a reward all its own. It just makes my heart pound to have big bulls that close. And the place I saw both the 370 bulls, I get to hunt this year. Maybe I will get to see his kids.

Gselkhunter

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ea36aa12.jpg

Here's why your friend didn't shoot. Shooting s muzzle loader is just like shooting a bow. See the shots walk? At 25 yards, just above the bullseye. 50 yards higher and 75 is nearly off the target. Then look what happens at 100. In 25 yards it drops 8". Unreal. Thus he probably knew this and passed up the bull.

ea36aa11.jpg

This is a three shot group at 100 yards off sandbags with 100 gr. of pyrodex and a peepsight. I put a fiber optic sight on the front of my gun just for those light conditions. It works nearly as well to slightly rough the sight and put a tiny dab of white paint on it with a toothpick. I feel their agony. Same thing happened to me with a bear; that's when I learned to paint the front sight white.

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gselkhunter

Nice imput Gonehuntin. Like I said I am a bow shooter, a good one but a bow shooter. Rifles and muzzleloaders are not in my knowledge base. I just think it was too bad they didn't put them on the wall. It isn't very often to get a really good chance at a big bull in CO.

Gselkhunter

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You're right; a chance like that doesn't come along often, and the older you get, the less it comes along. It was the last day of a muzzle loader hunt in Colorado. I and my two friends were set up in a burn calling to a bull. I heard a bugle from a ways away, faint but a bugle. I looked up to the top of the mountain and there was the biggest bull I've ever seen in Co. with a herd of 23 cows. His antlers swept past his rump and looked to be nearly twice his body width. He was on a bench on top of one of those 60 degree slopes you were talking about. I looked at him, and I just didn't have the gas to climb the 3000 vertical feet to get him. I dream of youth and it still depresses me. My two partners are glad I'm getting old.
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insanelupus
I know several younger guys that get bulls every year.  But I'll tell you, most of the guys that I know who kill bulls are over 50 and been doing it for years and years.  Youth helps you tramp all over the mountain, age and experience tell you where to go so you can kill the bull.  At least from what I've been able to see.
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I know several younger guys that get bulls every year.  But I'll tell you, most of the guys that I know who kill bulls are over 50 and been doing it for years and years.  Youth helps you tramp all over the mountain, age and experience tell you where to go so you can kill the bull.  At least from what I've been able to see.

A very dissapointing happened to me quite a few years ago. I love helping guys out get started hunting or dog training and I had two young fellas I had known a while ask me to take them Elk hunting and teach them about it. I was trying to find a new area so I told them I'd split up the work. They could call the biologists and F&G people, I'd pour through the topo maps and research the areas. They said they weren't comfortable doing that because they didn't know the correct questions to ask. That sounded reasonable to me, so I researched and put the whole hunt together. I turned 50 that year so it was a while ago.

I gave them lists of what to get and buy; backpacks, stoves, shoes, gps, compass and taught them to use it all including topo maps. I though I might have made a mistake in judgement when we got out there and I could see they had done nothing to get in shape for the trip. I was 15 years older than them and absolutely killed them until I twisted a knee, which they were eternally thankful for. They hadn't gotten in shape, hadn't learned to use any kind of an elk call,  hadn't learned the elk's language, hadn't bothered to moleskin and silence their bows. I called a spike in and one of the guys decided to lay down. The spike walked past him and he never saw it. I called in a 6x6 and the guy shot at him head on at 15 yards and missed him. They went with me once more and still never learned to blow a call, research information, or in any way prepare for the trip. I have never been so dissapointed in two individuals. If they couldn't watch it on a video, they weren't interested in learning it. They were even too damn lazy to blow a call. They have asked me since to take them again and I have always politely but firmly refused. They don't understand why.

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