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Piper Paid


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"If no set of moral ideas were better than another, there would be no sense in preferring civilised morality to Nazi morality. The moment you say one lot of morals is better than another, you are in fact measuring them by an ultimate standard."

CS Lewis

THe subject of 'morality' and the resulting behaviors has long ago been worked out. Worked out and discussed at great length by thinking men. Long before Lewis. It is a very interesting subject and there is no one that wouldn't profit from it.

Its right up there with a study of ontology.

Gleaned from such is one sure point among many...man, if left alone has 'no' guaranteed internal moral compass. If left alone, his culture is capable of the greatest of atrocities. But how does a man measure what is wrong?

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DennisMcFeely

Dakota Dogman,

Thanks for the clarification.  Those points all make sense to me now.

Dennis

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Pinecobleguy
I do not want this to sound like a monetary debate, but Penn State in insured by Pennsylvania Manufacturer’s Association Insurance Company.  In reading some articles, sounds like most catholic church victims were 50k-a couple of million.  Not sure the total number of civil suits, however it appears the NCAA fine will be larger.

Regardless, Penn State made a lot of mistakes that impacted a lot of people's lives.

Carrier denies covetage because of the cover-up.

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I would hope that you're right, but my instincts tell me the exact opposite. I'm still convinced that most, of not all, major football programs would have tried to put a lid on this hoping that they could stop it on their own and keep the institution protected from scandal. I think anyone who doubts that is being naive.

I think that the NCAA agrees with you Don, and that is why they meted out a severe punishment.  They are sending a message to the other schools that if they let the tail wag the dog to this extent, the NCAA will hammer them.

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I'm just wired differently I guess.  Then again, I haven't been faced with a scandle in which I had to make that decision either.....I pray I never will.

Therein lies the crux of this entire matter. It's easy for all of us in our self-righteous rage to say we'd have gone immediately to the authorities or taken matters into our own hands and beaten Sandusky to death. However, if we had been in that exact same situation, and had been living their lives, there is no way to really know what most of us have done. Not with 100% certainty.

Given our moral code and our set of life experiences and were thrust into that situation, we'd probably have done the right thing, but if we were actually living the lives of those involved and had been for most of our adult lives, if we had actually BEEN them, I'm not sure.

Please don't take this to mean that I think what these guys did was OK or even easily forgiven.  I don't.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I join millions of others in wishing that none of this had never happened, not the abuse and not the coverup. It's just a damn shame.

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Don, trust me, I get what you are saying.

I'm also comfortable saying I don't know what I would do, because as you stated, until I am in that situation, I can't say for 100% certainty.

Saying anything less in my opinion, might be intellectually dishonest.

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Keith E. Carlson

One of the interesting results of the trials of the VP and AD will be to hear the testimony of Mike McQuery.

If he, in fact, told Paterno, Schultz and Curley that he witnessed an actual criminal, sexual assault upon a 10-11 year old boy and did nothing to stop this act at the time, we can then ask why did he do nothing at the one time when it could have reallly mattered.

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Don, trust me, I get what you are saying.

I'm also comfortable saying I don't know what I would do, because as you stated, until I am in that situation, I can't say for 100% certainty.

Saying anything less in my opinion, might be intellectually dishonest.

I have a hard time with this sort of thing.

Its one thing to say a man doesn't know what he'll do in a combat situation until he has to. I get that and will always wonder about myself in that regard.

Moral and ethical considerations are another thing altogether.

This is referred to as 'situational ethics'.

I can say that I 'know' what I would do in that situation. The needs of the children would trump my selfish needs. I suspect that many of you guys that are saying otherwise about yourselves, are wrong.

This is a very high level of moral cowardice we are talking about here.

To say, "if I were one of those guys", or some such is rhetorical.

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Don, trust me, I get what you are saying.

I'm also comfortable saying I don't know what I would do, because as you stated, until I am in that situation, I can't say for 100% certainty.

Saying anything less in my opinion, might be intellectually dishonest.

I have a hard time with this sort of thing.

Its one thing to say a man doesn't know what he'll do in a combat situation until he has to. I get that and will always wonder about myself in that regard.

Moral and ethical considerations are another thing altogether.

This is referred to as 'situational ethics'.

I can say that I 'know' what I would do in that situation. The needs of the children would trump my selfish needs. I suspect that many of you guys that are saying otherwise about yourselves, are wrong.

This is a very high level of moral cowardice we are talking about here.

To say, "if I were one of those guys", or some such is rhetorical.

The lens I used in my last post was the fact that we don't know what all the circumstances were.....

For example:

Perhaps those who were "in the know" had their families threatened to end up like the DA who is still missing and that factored into their decision along the way.......as crazy as it sounds John, I'm not sure you really can say with 100% certainty......until you are in that situation.

What if the lives of your children could end as soon as you reported the abuse of the others?  You trading your children's lives for the abuse to stop?  As silly as that sounds, that is the 1% I can't account for.

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Don, trust me, I get what you are saying.

I'm also comfortable saying I don't know what I would do, because as you stated, until I am in that situation, I can't say for 100% certainty.

Saying anything less in my opinion, might be intellectually dishonest.

I have a hard time with this sort of thing.

Its one thing to say a man doesn't know what he'll do in a combat situation until he has to. I get that and will always wonder about myself in that regard.

Moral and ethical considerations are another thing altogether.

This is referred to as 'situational ethics'.

I can say that I 'know' what I would do in that situation. The needs of the children would trump my selfish needs. I suspect that many of you guys that are saying otherwise about yourselves, are wrong.

This is a very high level of moral cowardice we are talking about here.

To say, "if I were one of those guys", or some such is rhetorical.

The lens I used in my last post was the fact that we don't know what all the circumstances were.....

For example:

Perhaps those who were "in the know" had their families threatened to end up like the DA who is still missing and that factored into their decision along the way.......as crazy as it sounds John, I'm not sure you really can say with 100% certainty......until you are in that situation.

What if the lives of your children could end as soon as you reported the abuse of the others?  You trading your children's lives for the abuse to stop?  As silly as that sounds, that is the 1% I can't account for.

Understood.

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