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NRA "Enabler of Death" Video


CdnWingShooter

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Which one is an assault rifle?

ruger1022.jpg

STK63161.JPG

The one on the bottom looks pretty dumb because it doesn't seem to have any mechanism for aiming.

Aiming is for wusses.

The point I think the poster was trying to make is that they're the same gun.  Just a guess though.

They are absolutely the same gun. With the same capacity and caliber.

One has a black plastic stock.......the other many of us probably have and let our kids shoot it.

I'm sure many people would classify one as an assault rifle and one as a wholesome .22 plinker.

That's the problem with not "needing" an assault rifle. Heck they are ALL assault rifles if you get right down to it.

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So some don't believe in the 'slippery slope', huh?

In 1954, at the age of 13, I walked into a hardware store and bought an H&R single 20 shotgun.  Plunked down my money and walked out with the it.

My buddies and I, when kids, used to walk a mile through town with our unsheathed rifles in hand and our pistols in a holster or stuck in the belt going to plink on the RR tracks outside of town.  Today, the Swat Team would be on you like flies on ####.

In the 40s, and 50s  students used to get on city public buses and school buses with their .22 rifles for the shooting club at school.

Yes, we have been on the slope and  extremists want to re-grease it.

What does that have to do with your 2nd Amendment rights?

A case can certainly be made that something has been lost over the last 50 years, but that's not relevant to a discussion about gun laws.

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Varmint hunters and gun game (three-gun and tactical multi-gun) shooters fire thousands and thousands of rounds a year from their battle rifles. How is it that we should decimate their sports and leave only the sports where you use a two shot gun with fancy wood and engraving? How is it that those folks are less sportsmen than "we" are? How is it that their enjoyment of their sport is less wholesome? Why is our fun better than their fun?

All this is just another argument for how much more superior we are, how we know so much more, how we are so much more sensitive, caring and understanding than our neighbors. It is a chance to force our will on another because we know the better way. Yep......anti-gunners and those of you who would capitulate to them, are just morally superior and culturally advanced people. I don't think so.

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There are multiple questions around the topic.

Here's two.

1. Should we ban such and such.

2. If we did, would it make the stated desired difference.

'Should' is saturated with subjection

'If' maybe less so.

So I ask, what difference would it make?

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bottom one kinda looks like an 870.

I actually laughed out loud.

cereal.

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That whole "go along to get along" philosophy is what got this country in the mess that it is in.  My new philosophy is that all the clowns who feel like they need to tell me what I can and cannot do should mind their own damn business and I will gladly mind mine.
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That whole "go along to get along" philosophy...

That's not what I'm advocating. I'm suggesting an intelligent approach to dialogue. At the risk of sounding insenstive, what any one of us feels about guns and the 2nd Amendment isn't worth a pile of ****. What matters are the laws that we have, and the realities of guns (i.e. hard data) and how they affect us. If people want to effect change (or avoid change), there needs to be substance in the dialogue, and most of what passes for debate about gun-rights is anecdotal and totally irrelevant.

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(patriot @ Jul. 26 2012,1:44)

QUOTE

So some don't believe in the 'slippery slope', huh?

In 1954, at the age of 13, I walked into a hardware store and bought an H&R single 20 shotgun.  Plunked down my money and walked out with the it.

My buddies and I, when kids, used to walk a mile through town with our unsheathed rifles in hand and our pistols in a holster or stuck in the belt going to plink on the RR tracks outside of town.  Today, the Swat Team would be on you like flies on ####.

In the 40s, and 50s  students used to get on city public buses and school buses with their .22 rifles for the shooting club at school.

Yes, we have been on the slope and  extremists want to re-grease it.

What has changed? The number of guns for one, the number of firearms related crimes for another, Mass murders involving high capacity weapons. Oh yes remember the 20's and the fact that anybody could buy a full auto weapon, and the bad guys took full advantage of that fact. Then common sense took over and that 2d Amendment "freedom" got curtailed. We pretty much supported that "gun control" and pretty much

found that decient society benefited. With rights along comes responsibilities. If this right, this freedom cannot be exercized responsibly. If you can't keep it so. Keep it from being misused

and I speak to everyone and the gun advocates in particular(you push so hard to promote this freedom, so it is and should be You on who the greatest responsibility and accountability should fall) If this is the case then it is only fitting, only right that controls, regulations and penalties should be imposed or this right or freedom should be forfeit.

   I'd kind of like to mention that last I heard we meaning All of us (Americans) make up this democratic republic. That all are entitled to thier opinions, rights, and thier vote and that the majority of Americans Favor some forms of gun control.

As late as this past May Republican strategist Frank Lutz did some intensive polling which confirmed this to be true and by a very substantial margin. Remember this is months before a number of recent high profile shooting incidences and of course this latest tragedy. I'm pretty sure we as Americans know and support the Majority Rule principle. If you don't I'd have to say you're not much of an American if at all. Perhaps instead of fire breathing, don't budge an inch, all or nothing rhetoric the gun owning community would be better served by bearing in mind rights and responsibilities and majority rule

principals. Frankly I see and hear a huge amount of "I demand full freedom and rights as pertaining to firearms and nothing less" and the never ending use of this subject twisted and manipulated for personal and political gain. I'd like to see more self imposed regulation and limits and taking responsibility for misuse by the gun fraternity rather than blanket denial or trying to pass the blame off solely on the political or social opposition. It will only be a matter of time if we continue on the present course till the tide of public opinion reverses and gun ownership across the board will pay a huge price. That will include me and I don't want to see that happen but Blowback happens!

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What has changed?

the public's tolerance for a myriad of things   bad/questionable behavior, generational welfare and rampant single parent families , acceptance of substance abuse (well if it meets the "feel good about yourself" quotient) Dr Spock  , little personal accountability , a general belief that when you do bad stuff, or bad stuff happens to you , your not to blame... it's always someone else's fault....

those are a few of the things I've seen

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That whole "go along to get along" philosophy...

That's not what I'm advocating. I'm suggesting an intelligent approach to dialogue. At the risk of sounding insenstive, what any one of us feels about guns and the 2nd Amendment isn't worth a pile of ****. What matters are the laws that we have, and the realities of guns (i.e. hard data) and how they affect us. If people want to effect change (or avoid change), there needs to be substance in the dialogue, and most of what passes for debate about gun-rights is anecdotal and totally irrelevant.

It seems to me that is exactly what some are suggesting.  We should ban high capacity magazines why?  because occasionally a nut job uses one in a criminal act.  I've got new for you, more people are killed with cheap revolvers and standard semi auto pistols than are killed by guys with "assault"weapons and high cap mags each year.  Outlawing them is a feel good gesture to compromise with ignorant gun control nuts who don't know squat about guns.  It is law based on "feelings".  Assault weapons frighten the ignorant.  The Constitution guarantees me the right to bear arms.  It doesn't place any limits on what kind of arms I can bear.  Political appointees on the Supreme Court have done that.  The limits that they deem "reasonable" are unreasonable to some, in large part because if a law abiding citizen decides he wants to get groceries in a tank, it is a danger to no one.  Criminals, on the other hand don't give a rip what the court says and will be a danger to society no matter what laws we pass, mostly because they are criminals and have chosen to live outside the law!  To close my rant, I will say that I don't feel the need to "debate" my constitutional rights with anyone.  They can promise to leave me and my guns alone, and I will promise not to shoot them unless they break into my home and threaten my family.  If they do, I don't imagine it will make much difference to them whether they catch a load of buckshot in the gut, or a couple of 5.56 rounds in the chest.

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(patriot @ Jul. 26 2012,1:44)

QUOTE

Oh yes remember the 20's and the fact that anybody could buy a full auto weapon, and the bad guys took full advantage of that fact. Then common sense took over and that 2d Amendment "freedom" got curtailed. We pretty much supported that "gun control" and pretty much

found that decient society benefited.

With rights along comes responsibilities. If this right, this freedom cannot be exercized responsibly. If you can't keep it so. Keep it from being misused

and I speak to everyone and the gun advocates in particular(you push so hard to promote this freedom, so it is and should be You on who the greatest responsibility and accountability should fall) If this is the case then it is only fitting, only right that controls, regulations and penalties should be imposed or this right or freedom should be forfeit.

   I'd kind of like to mention that last I heard we meaning All of us (Americans) make up this democratic republic. That all are entitled to thier opinions, rights, and thier vote and that the majority of Americans Favor some forms of gun control.

As late as this past May Republican strategist Frank Lutz did some intensive polling which confirmed this to be true and by a very substantial margin. Remember this is months before a number of recent high profile shooting incidences and of course this latest tragedy. I'm pretty sure we as Americans know and support the Majority Rule principle. If you don't I'd have to say you're not much of an American if at all. Perhaps instead of fire breathing, don't budge an inch, all or nothing rhetoric the gun owning community would be better served by bearing in mind rights and responsibilities and majority rule

principals. Frankly I see and hear a huge amount of "I demand full freedom and rights as pertaining to firearms and nothing less" and the never ending use of this subject twisted and manipulated for personal and political gain. I'd like to see more self imposed regulation and limits and taking responsibility for misuse by the gun fraternity rather than blanket denial or trying to pass the blame off solely on the political or social opposition. It will only be a matter of time if we continue on the present course till the tide of public opinion reverses and gun ownership across the board will pay a huge price. That will include me and I don't want to see that happen but Blowback happens!

You mean today the bad guys follow the law, and will not purchase (or acquire illegally) full automatic weapons? Because the after all, the law is the law, right?

Last I looked the Republic does not mean mob rule, there is the constitution, and it is already restricted with regards to the second amendment.  The cities with the toughest gun regulations have the highest gun crime and murder rate.  

Criminals will not follow the law, that is why they are criminals.  It does not get any simpler than that.

This guy could have killed more people with a couple pipe bombs, and a can of gasoline.

Bad people do bad things, part of human nature, no amount of laws and restrictions will change that.

Barna

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What has changed?

the public's tolerance for a myriad of things   bad/questionable behavior, generational welfare and rampant single parent families , acceptance of substance abuse (well if it meets the "feel good about yourself" quotient) Dr Spock  , little personal accountability , a general belief that when you do bad stuff, or bad stuff happens to you , your not to blame... it's always someone else's fault....

those are a few of the things I've seen

Exactly; well said,......only one more; in 1962 when the supreme court kicked God and the 10 commandments out of  public schools.  

If young impressionable minds see on the wall every day; "Thou shalt not kill", it sticks most of the time.

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So I guess you think we all should just quit, arm ourselves to the teeth and let the bad guys take the whole enchlada.

Laws are useless (the Constituition is our highest set of laws friend)  There are a pretty big group of criminals cooling thier heels behind bars that might disagree with you. I believe the nutjob in Colorado was not a criminal but a US citizen exersizing his 2d amendment rights right up to the time he opened up on the crowd in that theatre. I know quite a few people in Law enforcement who would take exception to your opinion and a few more people in the legal system as well. Matter of fact I know a few crooks who are very much conscious and afraid of firearm violations particularly a repeat violation. Oh yes the wacko in Colorado didn't use a couple pipe bombs did he, he used primarily an assault rifle. And while we're on the subject shooters can and have accounted for high numbers of innocent lives many times. Pleanty of bombs are used in the Middle East in streets and crowded markets that result in lower casulties.

    Lastly go convince the Military and law enforcement that they should give up thier present weapons as they are no more effective than saturday nite specials and that they should go back to wheel guns and Springfields. That would be one short conversation.

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So what makes you believe that people who are intent on evil would obey your new unconstitutional gun laws?
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What makes you think they wouldn't consider the increased penalties for these new restrictions/controls? You know "Is the juice worth the squeeze"

  What makes you think real training in handling/shooting wouldn't be worthwhile? Here you could be getting a cc and participating in an organized match counts twords that requirered experience. Picture my club down the road. Humm need the experience for my cc. Well me and a couple of the boys are going to have a 'wink' organized match in about an hour.

    What makes you think running a gun trace thru a registry file couldn't possibly be of use in a crime? or preventing one?

    Bob I don't believe you really think that they could or don't have a positive effect. Not really. The manditory wait period has in all likelyhood saved many lives alone. I think you, me and every mother's son on this board lives with, relies on and benifits from a myriad of laws every day. Now do you believe in the basic principle that with rights come responsibilities? Just askin.

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