Climate Change

[Roost em 1st]

Pretty sure Stanley Steamer will clean your carpets Don.

Cooter said it nicely. I really can't believe how many feel we are the cause of climate change. Factor yes, cause, yeah right about like we cause the sun to rise and set.

The arrow affected the Apple when it sliced through it. The effect was impressive.

[northern_hunting_mom]

I haven't read all the posts yet. I do believe its happening and that humans are making it happen at an accelerated rate. I doubt that humans can prevent it. Our efforts may be better spent on how to deal with it. The movie, "The Day after Tomorrow" is startling.

[Hunshatt]

So I guess I'm really an anomaly, a steaming greenie who works all the time because there are jobs to be created by helping more people add solar power to their homes.

One of the pieces that few understand regarding solar power is that it solves a number of issues beyond just making clean electricity. But I don't want to bore you guys with more facts.

I was on the record early regarding Solyndra. They had a poorly engineered "solution" from the start. It was a bad idea that should never have gained any traction in either administration. Just for the record.

Carry on!

how much of the practicality of solar is gobernment funded(tax credits/ect)  or mandated(forcing the utilities to buy spare power) , with regard to consumer implementation? Can is stand on it's own, in a free market? or must it be propped up?

[charlo slim]

[how much of the practicality of solar is gobernment funded(tax credits/ect)  or mandated(forcing the utilities to buy spare power) , with regard to consumer implementation? Can is stand on it's own, in a free market? or must it be propped up?

Good question.  Where do you want to tally past, current, and potential future military costs on the spreadsheet?

[northern_hunting_mom]

I believe that a type of energy that is not fossil fuel based has to be made. It will have to be efficient and consistent. Fossil fuel energy did not start in that way so I don't believe that alternative energies should have to be immediately invented, mass produced and efficient from the start. It is a process, and depending on the People's opinion and (thus) the amount of money they are given to make it that way, the better off we will be.

The less that electricity production needs fossil fuels, the more we will have for our fossil fueled vehicles. It is obviously difficult to make a vehicle with a very small environmental footprint. Electric vehicles still need fossil fuels to produce and (most likely) fossil fuels to recharge batteries.

I read an article in an automotive mag about a new type of "battery" being developed. The battery is a "slurry" of metals and acid that can be added to a vehicle in the same way gasoline/diesel is added now. As the "charged" slurry is added, the spent slurry is removed to be recharged. This way, a vehicle's "battery" can be recharged with less environmentally harmful sources..... in a better world.

Mt husband has worked in the oil/gas industry for over 10 years. The waste of time and resources is painful. Part of this is due to lack of manpower and the tools (diesel fueled vehicles) needed to get the job done. I believe the main cause of this is due to poor co-ordinating. And this comes back to lack of manpower and tools. Its a business of hurry up and wait.

The use of fossil fuels charged the start of the Industrial Revolution. It was a giant leap forward in technology. Getting to where alternatvie energyy sources become viable will cause pain because it will be a lateral move at the start and will cause a lag in economy. We are rats, and we have to learn how to jump off the ship BEFORE there is a last minute alarm. If we don't, it won't take another Ice Age to force us to become cavemen.

Gov't subsidies, tax breaks and outright handouts have to be done in a better way but I do believe they are necessary to get us off our fossil fuel dependence. Wind energy needs more judicious expansion. There are some places where it has been subsidized that are ridiculous, about as much as giving tax cuts and handouts to someone trying to get money for tide energy in Utah.

Everything wrong with the world can be reasonably linked to gov't, with the right orator. It may not be wrong. I believe the problem with gov't is that the politician is not directly linked to bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is the ugly monkey wrench that is stuck in the cogs and the common sense needed to reduce it is very difficult to remove. Reducing bureaucracy will cause many thousands of jobs. It is a conundrum and I am glad that I don't have to make the decisions necessary.

[Steve Hunts]

Carry on!

how much of the practicality of solar is gobernment funded(tax credits/ect)  or mandated(forcing the utilities to buy spare power) , with regard to consumer implementation? Can is stand on it's own, in a free market? or must it be propped up?

Why should they have to stand on their own?  Look at the sweet heart deals oil and gas companies get from states and the federal government. Or the way they influence peddle in Washington.  I can't claim to have ever seen a "free" market.  It's a myth.

[Hunshatt]

Carry on!

how much of the practicality of solar is gobernment funded(tax credits/ect)  or mandated(forcing the utilities to buy spare power) , with regard to consumer implementation? Can is stand on it's own, in a free market? or must it be propped up?

Why should they have to stand on their own?  Look at the sweet heart deals oil and gas companies get from states and the federal government. Or the way they influence peddle in Washington.  I can't claim to have ever seen a "free" market.  It's a myth.

thats pretty funny.... yur starting to sound like gowdy.

[Chubs]

Carry on!

how much of the practicality of solar is gobernment funded(tax credits/ect)  or mandated(forcing the utilities to buy spare power) , with regard to consumer implementation? Can is stand on it's own, in a free market? or must it be propped up?

Why should they have to stand on their own?  Look at the sweet heart deals oil and gas companies get from states and the federal government. Or the way they influence peddle in Washington.  I can't claim to have ever seen a "free" market.  It's a myth.

thats pretty funny.... yur starting to sound like gowdy.

What's the answer to his question, though, with regard to why "clean" energy has to be sustainable in the market without government help, while oil and gas companies are subsidized out the ass?

[Hunshatt]

yur kidding , right.... you have any idea what their net % of return is , on investment? they make their margins on volume... BTW you want to get really pissed off, look at what state/feds/even local add as taxes to your purchase of a US gal

[valuman]

You don't believe the solar electricity industry would be where it is without the electric utilities. buy in, do you?

Ask yourself why there's no solar in Florida.

[Hunshatt]

more intrested in teh gobernments involvement... and looking to you for non BS answers... is it like ethanol ?

[valuman]

No BS. If the utilities didn't want it, it wouldn't exist. FP&L doesn't want it because they don't need it.

Could it work today without the tax credits? Not in very many places. Are you getting something in return for the tax credits? You bet. A bunch of stuff.

[Flush]

What's the answer to his question, though, with regard to why "clean" energy has to be sustainable in the market without government help, while oil and gas companies are subsidized out the ass?

The Gas and Oil industries are not subsidized. They do recieve tax breaks, whether the tax breaks they recieve on a relative basis are more or less than other industries can be debated.

There is a big difference between an industry costing the tax payer money and an industry that generates money for the tax payer.

Certainly it's possible (although not a gurantee) that the oil and gas industries could raise more money for the taxpayers if they were taxed more, but I think it's very misleading, and usually disinegunious, when one tries to compare true subsidies to one industry to tax cuts in another.

[Cooter Brown]

What's the answer to his question, though, with regard to why "clean" energy has to be sustainable in the market without government help, while oil and gas companies are subsidized out the ass?

The Gas and Oil industries are not subsidized. They do recieve tax breaks, whether the tax breaks they recieve on a relative basis are more or less than other industries can be debated.

There is a big difference between an industry costing the tax payer money and an industry that generates money for the tax payer.

Certainly it's possible (although not a gurantee) that the oil and gas industries could raise more money for the taxpayers if they were taxed more, but I think it's very misleading, and usually disinegunious, when one tries to compare true subsidies to one industry to tax cuts in another.

True enough.  To some degree almost all businesses get some sort of deal--like a manufacturer getting a sweetheart property tax deal from a state in order to bring in jobs.  The profit margin for big oil is less than average across industry.

Remember a couple of years ago when GE essentially paid no taxes at all?

Jen's post above is very good!

[Spin]

"Jen's post above is very good! "

I agree, nice posting

             Spin