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Climate Change


Climate Change  

  1. 1. Climate Change

    • Is human caused.
      Is human caused.
    • Is not human caused; part of the earth's normal climate cycles.
      Is human caused.
    • Is not occurring.
      Is human caused.
    • The Jury is still out (your undecided?)
      Is human caused.
    • Is a left wing conspiracy?
      Is human caused.
    • All science is a left wing conspiracy?
      Is human caused.


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I travel  a great deal in Asia, designing and making the goods that people in the US buy, and China is WAAAY ahead of the curve.  Yeah, they have been addicted to coal, but that is rapidly changing as they see that pollution is negatively affecting their GDP because of worker sickness.

If you travel in China, for example, you will see that most every building has solar panels on it and most residences heat water with solar.  This mandate actually spiked world aluminum commodities two years a go as China ramped up.  Vehicles have to met stricter fuel mileage requirements. Vehicles are smaller, and many, many people ride bikes.  This is especially evident in the under 30 crowd, who have adopted western lifestyle and attention to health.  China has a long way to go, but they have learned from our mistakes and take action.  Something that we don't seem to be able to do.

As far as solar's limitations, I am not seeing that.  We have two entire communities that I am familiar with here in WA that are totally solar and off the grid.  One is Oil City.  It is where the Hoh River dumps into the Pacific Ocean - and they get 180" of rain a year and it is one of the largest temperate rainforests in the US, if not the world.  The other is Thompson Creek outside of Glacier.  This is on Mt. Baker - the snowiest mountain in the world.  We got 800+ " on Mt Baker last year - that's about 70'.  Both of these communities do quite well but admit that in Jan / Feb they just need to pay a bit of attention to power usage.  And if there are wetter and darker places in the US then I just don't know about them.

More than anything, I think it is just common sense to do what is prudent.  If you are using gobs of energy and don't care about the footprint that you leave then you are as much a slob hunter as the douche who leaves litter in a farmer's field or drives through fences.  IMO, being a conservationist extends to all facets of one's life - not just what one does in the field.

Well stated!

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John,

I don't know if this answers your question directly, but Germany for one is way out ahead in terms of solar panel manufacturing and installing and solar energy usage.

Several years back, Germany went on a big solar push, covering countless surfaces in solar panels. The roofs of high-rises, parking garages, old military bases, old mining areas...you name it, covered in solar panels.

Now to put things in perspective, as of 2011, solar provided only 3-percent of Germany's electricity.

But to show how much power that solar can add to the grid -- on midday of Saturday May 26, 2012, solar energy provided over 40% of total electricity consumption in Germany, and 20% for the 24 hour day. (per wikipedia: http://bit.ly/czIoXo ).

Solar has its drawbacks -- like on rainy days and (of course) at night.

But for Germany at least, solar and other renewables are gaining ground and lessening the country's dependence on coal and oil.

what was the cost per (whatever you want to measure) to get there? I guess $ per kilo watt produced would be fair... total cost.... equipment, land , RnD, bla bla bla , relative to the same cost per watt for coal/hydo or oil?

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Briarscratch
It is, after all, the small actions of the individual, multiplied by millions and millions of us, that do matter. It is the willingness to do what we can to make a difference that matters. That is the moral outlook that I have taught my children; you do what is right to do, not because you hope to be rewarded by financial gain or community praise, but simply because it's the right thing to do.

Bravo!

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but I would admit our walmart shoppers tend to be much much much fatter  :<img src=:'>

:laugh:  :laugh:   :oh:

Great non sequitur, well played Timmay.

:cool:

I absolutely  HATE when I have to have my sister google words so I can understand what you write Ben...... .... being the grandson of a window washer does have it's intellectual challenges  :down:  :down:

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It is, after all, the small actions of the individual, multiplied by millions and millions of us, that do matter. It is the willingness to do what we can to make a difference that matters. That is the moral outlook that I have taught my children; you do what is right to do, not because you hope to be rewarded by financial gain or community praise, but simply because it's the right thing to do.

Bravo!

+2

Ron

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I admit I don't have the cost-benefit analysis for Germany's solar power expansion.

It is heavily subsidized... that there socialist guvmint whut them Huns got over there.

I hate to even utter the name, but the whole Solyndra debacle has probably poisoned the well as far as any large-scale solar investment goes over here in the U.S. of A.

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I travel  a great deal in Asia, designing and making the goods that people in the US buy, and China is WAAAY ahead of the curve.  Yeah, they have been addicted to coal, but that is rapidly changing as they see that pollution is negatively affecting their GDP because of worker sickness.

If you travel in China, for example, you will see that most every building has solar panels on it and most residences heat water with solar.  This mandate actually spiked world aluminum commodities two years a go as China ramped up.  Vehicles have to met stricter fuel mileage requirements. Vehicles are smaller, and many, many people ride bikes.  This is especially evident in the under 30 crowd, who have adopted western lifestyle and attention to health.  China has a long way to go, but they have learned from our mistakes and take action.  Something that we don't seem to be able to do.

Marty, I spent a month traveling the large and small places of China (not enough time) last year, and I have seen what you are speaking about. Thanks for writing this because if I did it , people may/would say that I am biased.

people have to wear masks to breathe in china, at least last year when i was there, there polution problms are 10x us, dont give me that chit

ok so they make solar panels, i guess the fact that theres a smog so thick you can barley see the tops of there buildings makes no differnece

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I like having clean water to drink, clean air to breathe, decient food to eat. I don't adopt a "I don't care I won't be hear top see it" attitude. Rather I think I've already seen way too much careless and destructive behavior by mankind. Do whats right not whats easiest or most profitable or most expedient.

    Are we causing climate change by our actions? Yes. Both the hard numbers, and easily recognized physical evidence are there. And the boom in human population, deforestation, unbelievable increase in burning of fossil fuels all correlate with this dramatic spike in climate change. They fit like matching pieces of a jig saw puzzle.

    Could there be other forces at play? Solar flares, shift in orbit? Yes it could be but too lay it all off on such theories and dismiss irresponsible practices and use of resources by ourselves is folly on a grand scale. And we do have the capability to do otherwise. As was pointed out earlier, Do we have the wisdom and the will?

     I'd like to point out one simple fact to those keeping up with this thread. We all use and enjoy easy energy. We are acustomed to it, addicted to it. We demand it, claim we cannot live without it. We must have it regardless of the cost.

Still try living without water. Really. Go 36 lousy hours without a drop. Don't try 3 days, most likely you'll die.

      Now one last fact. Every drop of water this entire planet is ever likely to have is already here, there is no more! There are things right in front of you that are more important than driving to work in your gas guzzler, than quarterly profit margins, than gas or oil lease money, than political ideologies.

      I am amazed, stunned that people who profess to be "conservative" can't see this or chose to turn thier backs on these issues that are as basically as conservative as could possibly be.

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Great to see some people here care about their impact on the planet and take responsibility.  We try our best here too.  Wish I could do solar on my house but no $$$.  Back in 1984 when I lived in upstate Vermont I worked with an outfit doing passive solar renovation.  It was lot's of fun and very rewarding.  Even back then some folks were tuned in.  

Two interesting pieces of news I read recently.  First is that a new lithium battery is in the works that is a big improvement over current tech and will allow electric cars much longer range.

The other is less positive.  James Hamilton, U of Cal econ prof wrote that many experts believe that "absent the discoveries of numerous new giant oilfields or breakthroughs in development of alternative fuels, oil demand will push global prices to unaffordable levels. shackling economic growth indefinitely."  It is generally believed that energy prices that exceed 13% of GDP causes growth to stop.  Annual global expenditures on raw energy have climbed to an estimated 8-9 trillion dollars, exceeding 10% of the $70 trillion world gross domestic product.   The IMF predicts oil prices in the next decade will permanently double to $200/barrel mainly due to demand in China and India.

Something other than oil will have to drive any future global growth.

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Have we seen a lot of technological advance in the last 75 years??

What is the 'mother of invention'?

Cheer up folks.

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Quote:

"

Something other than oil will have to drive any future global growth. "

Really:  There is a whole middle east in our western states, but the greenies in govt. have that in a lock box too.  

Too bad the government wasn't that concerned about a lock box for SS.

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bosco mctavitch

There is a whole middle east in our western states

Those estimates take that into account.  How much time will that buy when India and china have a few more years to grow and their per capita rates of energy usage rival ours, vs what is the cost to those areas to extract it?  Some would argue it is worth it, many would not.

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Grouse Gunner
      Now one last fact. Every drop of water this entire planet is ever likely to have is already here, there is no more! There are things right in front of you that are more important than driving to work in your gas guzzler, than quarterly profit margins, than gas or oil lease money, than political ideologies.

     

...what are you trying to say? we need to develop a way to mass produce water? We have desalinization plants and purifications techniques that mitigate the "water problem". Potable water is not a problem for the developed world.

I drive a gas guzzler, quarterly profit margins are important as it is a direct reflection of the health of our economy (in aggregate) and its citizens, gas and oil leases have resulted in hundreds of jobs in impoverished areas, and political ideologies and myopic points of view are exactly what you are portraying in your post.

don't try to take cheap shots about others idealogical values.

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people have to wear masks to breathe in china, at least last year when i was there, there polution problms are 10x us, dont give me that chit

ok so they make solar panels, i guess the fact that theres a smog so thick you can barley see the tops of there buildings makes no differnece

You have to admit that whatever they are doing is a lot better than standing still, no? Did the great US of A not have their Love Canal, rivers catching fire, LA smog, etc. etc.? It took time to cure those ills, no? China also will require time and they will improve their lot at a speed that will leave you breathless. Pun or no pun, your choice.

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