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The last thing we need is federal price controls, that never works and always screws things up, let supply and demand alone determine it, and if they were truly left alone the price would be much lower.

I just bought a mint 1997 F 350 with a 460 in it, I am hopeful with a few mods I can get it up to 10 MPG. :down:

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The last thing we need is federal price controls, that never works and always screws things up, let supply and demand alone determine it, and if they were truly left alone the price would be much lower.

I just bought a mint 1997 F 350 with a 460 in it, I am hopeful with a few mods I can get it up to 10 MPG. :down:

While I agree that the thought of a federal price control on fuel is pretty scary, I can't agree that it's the last thing we need. I think that the last thing we need is for our economy to not have the capacity to bounce back.

Just to reiterate, a vibrant US economy is driven by consumer spending on "non essentials." I'd really like to read some other ideas on how we might get there from where we are now.

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Larry Brown

Average US price for gasoline was just under $2/gal in Mar 09.  It's now about $3.50.  Based on the math I learned in school, that's a 75% increase.  And we haven't had anything like 75% inflation in the last 5 years--let alone very many people seeing 75% more $ in their paychecks.

The president has stated on several occasions that we're now pumping more oil than we have in a very long time.  Problem is, we're also exporting oil.  It would seem that the country--if not the oil companies--would be better off if more of that oil stayed home.  There's probably a flaw in the logic somewhere (I'm not an economist, and don't even play one on the Internet), but seems to me that might lower gas prices, LP prices, fuel oil prices, etc.

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The last thing we need is federal price controls, that never works and always screws things up, let supply and demand alone determine it, and if they were truly left alone the price would be much lower.

I just bought a mint 1997 F 350 with a 460 in it, I am hopeful with a few mods I can get it up to 10 MPG. :down:

While I agree that the thought of a federal price control on fuel is pretty scary, I can't agree that it's the last thing we need. I think that the last thing we need is for our economy to not have the capacity to bounce back.

Just to reiterate, a vibrant US economy is driven by consumer spending on "non essentials." I'd really like to read some other ideas on how we might get there from where we are now.

Answering that truthfully would get me postholed so let me just say the govt isn't the solution to the problem they are the problem

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Average US price for gasoline was just under $2/gal in Mar 09.  It's now about $3.50.  Based on the math I learned in school, that's a 75% increase.  And we haven't had anything like 75% inflation in the last 5 years--let alone very many people seeing 75% more $ in their paychecks.

The president has stated on several occasions that we're now pumping more oil than we have in a very long time.  Problem is, we're also exporting oil.  It would seem that the country--if not the oil companies--would be better off if more of that oil stayed home.  There's probably a flaw in the logic somewhere (I'm not an economist, and don't even play one on the Internet), but seems to me that might lower gas prices, LP prices, fuel oil prices, etc.

If the well being of the US economy were the priority, we could curtail exports of fuel in order to reduce domestic prices. As things currently stand, it seems that maximum profits are the goal and exporting domestic fuel supports that priority. I'm sure you aren't the only person wondering about this, Larry.

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Larry Brown
You definitely get a different perspective when you see fuel prices in Europe.  On the other hand, they still have trains that actually carry PEOPLE.
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Kansas Big Dog
Average US price for gasoline was just under $2/gal in Mar 09.  It's now about $3.50.  Based on the math I learned in school, that's a 75% increase.  And we haven't had anything like 75% inflation in the last 5 years--let alone very many people seeing 75% more $ in their paychecks.

The president has stated on several occasions that we're now pumping more oil than we have in a very long time.  Problem is, we're also exporting oil.  It would seem that the country--if not the oil companies--would be better off if more of that oil stayed home.  There's probably a flaw in the logic somewhere (I'm not an economist, and don't even play one on the Internet), but seems to me that might lower gas prices, LP prices, fuel oil prices, etc.

If the well being of the US economy were the priority, we could curtail exports of fuel in order to reduce domestic prices. As things currently stand, it seems that maximum profits are the goal and exporting domestic fuel supports that priority. I'm sure you aren't the only person wondering about this, Larry.

Obviuosly, you must not believe that freer markets and freer trade are more efficient and effective economically?

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Guys, let's get serious, these are the good old days of low fuel prices.  Look around the world at what other countries pay for energy and then brace yourselves.  Things are only going higher from here.  In my opinion much higher over time, if for no other reason than the market will bear the increases.
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It would be great if there was still enough competition in the fuel industry to create true competition. I don't believe that is the case today, nor has it been for quite some time now.

Here's a quote I came across in an article about Exxon. Would a company be making a 75% after tax profit if there was competition for consumers' business? Is it okay for a company to make such profits when the economy is being detrimentally effected because their over priced products are essential to the functioning of consumers in their daily life requirements?

If you saw a company that hired some of the brightest, most well-educated graduates from top universities, set them up with some of the most sophisticated computers known to man, and put them to work at a business that generated net profits in the 75% range, wouldn't you assume the firm at which you were looking was a tech firm loaded with valuable intellectual property? This description fits one of Exxon Mobil's three segments to a "T" - the "Upstream" segment responsible for finding and drilling for oil and natural gas. For example, in 2012, Exxon Mobil's (XOM) upstream segment generated roughly $40 billion in sales and generated a whopping $30 billion in profits after taxes.
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Tim Frazier

Guys, let's get serious, these are the good old days of low fuel prices.  Look around the world at what other countries pay for energy and then brace yourselves.  Things are only going higher from here.  In my opinion much higher over time, if for no other reason than the market will bear the increases.

I agree.  It will get much higher.  On my drive to work every day I see large SUV and full size trucks all the time with one passenger going 10mph over the speed limit.  That tells me gas would have to go well over $5 a gallon to even get these folks to take notice.  If the rest of the world is paying $7 a gallon it will catch up.

Gluttony through out history has never lasted long.

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I think you have to be cautious when comparing global gas prices at the pump...how much is taxes vs. how much is gas costs...EU and countries like Canada have high taxes on gas as one avenue to fund high government services offered as well as to drive behavior...just a thought worth considering..would be interesting to see that analysis...regional cost impacts vs. regional government tax impacts vs. style of government...

BTW...being a capitalist at heart I don't begrudge any company like Exxon making money...if it was easy to do others would follow...they have competition...both in alternate energies (if gas costs are too high it favors alternates unless we "fund" these alternates to be competitive now) as well as gas & oil..so not sure why the concern...but the real driver is crude oil and IMHO that is not a true free market given the cartels in operation...so what is the solution...more government involvement???...don't see how that would ever have an impact...drive development of domestic gas and oil discovery/production and become an exporter of reckon to Europe (to free them to act more independently of Mother Russia)? or maybe help fund the development of more pipelines like that between CDA/US or a new line from middle east to EU to offset Russian influence...still left with the impact of cartels on global crude pricing...sooo I am open to ideas anyone?

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Just to answer the above question, we pay roughly £0.58 per litre duty on petrol (regardless of the price) and then 20% tax on the total.

Without duty or tax, petrol is about 52p per litre (£1.96 or $3.26 per US gallon)

So it's $3.26 + $3.64 duty + 20% tax = $8.20 (I hadn't checked to current exchange rate, so it's worse than I thought)

As far as trains go, a return ticket to London - about 65 miles away is £32.90 if you travel after 9:00am (more at peak times) so that's nearly $55 - hardly cheap.

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Larry Brown
Obviuosly, you must not believe that freer markets and freer trade are more efficient and effective economically?

Somewhere back around Teddy Roosevelt's time, or starting slightly before, we figured out that totally free markets were not such a good thing.  Those were the days when guys named Rockefeller and Carnegie controlled entire sectors of the economy.  Didn't work out so well for anyone, other than the Rockefellers and the Carnegies.

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Larry Brown
As far as trains go, a return ticket to London - about 65 miles away is £32.90 if you travel after 9:00am (more at peak times) so that's nearly $55 - hardly cheap.

Jay, if you're talking both ways, that's 130 miles for $55.  Seeing that the standard reimbursement for mileage in the States is now over 50 cents per mile, that'd make bottom line sense for us.  And for you, it'd make bottom line sense given your fuel costs, and assuming your reimbursement for mileage is something over twice what ours is, even if you're talking only a one way ticket.

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