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BlacknTan

Electric or Internal Combustion

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Speedgoat44

Tesla and similar are figuring it out - we'll have internal combustion engines for a long time, but kids born today will likely own hybrids or electric cars as adults.  The self-driving things is for real too...as weird as that will be.  I likely won't own one, but my kids probably will.  Only 30 yrs ago,  I would've been placing this message in an envelope and mailing it to Brad to include in his quarterly UJ newsletter.

 

.....you better start swimmin', or you'll sink like a stone, for the times, they are a-changin'...."

 

- Bob Dylan

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Jazz4Brazo
2 hours ago, Spin said:

     Like it or not Internal combustion is on it's way out and as time goes by the impetus to ditch it will make sure it's a thing of the past. GM killed their early electric

commuter car and those who owned (or better state "leased" their cars where in love with them.

    Me thinks some here protests too much. A macho thing or simply the very human tendency to chose the familiar, known, over an as yet, the unknown and seemingly unproven.

Or perhaps we should stop and think for a moment about the very much known popularity of Hybrid's.

    I guess we haven't had enough deleterious effects from a changing and unstable climate. That will come to pass inexorably after a sufficient amount of suffering occurs.

It's like Elephant's Foot. A some point Everybody has to admit it's there and something actually Has to be done. Wow! Reality, what a concept!  In the meantime Battery technology is moving along nicely

and 300 mile trips are within reach. That and more, much more are on the cusp. Besides 300 miles is along poke for the majority of internal combustion engine vehicles. What it boils down to is energy source availability. How easy will it be to "Fill Up or should I say Charge Up and it's actually much easier to put up a charging station than a gas station and less problems keeping one up.

    Here's an intriguing little truck that may just be making the scene in the not too distant future. Tesla isn't the only iron in the fire.

 

https://www.startengine.com/atlis-motor-vehicles?utm_source=adroll&utm_campaign=strategy&utm_medium=web&utm_content=web

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with progress and when the battery technology catches up...well maybe...but if we are going to look at electric then we have to look at the whole picture...where does the electricity come from and how easy it generated?...coal, solar, nuclear...what's the total carbon footprint? Today's battery technology, solar technology, nuclear technology all come with their waste disposal issues...so let's not trade one problem for another especially when subsidies drive artificial adoption (don't get me wrong...I see the value of using subsidies to drive adoption to help develop new technologies but not to sustain them)...otherwise...carry on 😉😇xD

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salmontogue

I purchased a Volt about eighteen months ago for about 11k with a replacement set of batteries including installation when needed.  It was about two and one-half years old.  To date....zero problems and a history of 58 mpg.  My wife absolutely loves it.  It's a little small for me but it works for local driving.  The resale on many hybrids is low.  This was an experiment as we also had a Dodge Ram 3500SRW, Lincoln Navigator and a Ford Taurus SHO.

 

The volt is not a long distance road car bur it is surprisingly quick and nimble.  I would like it better if it was larger but it is well appointed and my wife loves the silence and the high tech display.  The early ones had problems but this one was built after GM had seriously damaged their reputation and was trying to recover.  Thus far, the experiment is a success.  High praise coming from someone who loves full size SUVs and diesel pickups.

 

Perk

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Jazz4Brazo

I recall the post but not who made it and was hoping you would chime in on your follow in experiences. Have you had issues finding charging stations or just use home charging only...we only have one public parking garage in town that has a few spaces that I know of whereas when I travel to Redwood City corporate offices spots are everywhere including the office private lot. 

 

 

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Cold Iron

An electric car requires charging by electricity, obviously. How is that electricity produced? For the most part fossil fuel. And there are layers in between that cause it to be less effective than direct combustion of fossil fuels. Yes there are government subsides to help reduce the reliance on fossil fuels, about getting ready to pay my taxes and don't get me started.

 

Having attended the Navy Nuclear Power Program back in the 70's I may, no am, biased. Haven't built many Nuke plants in the last 40 years due to legislation against it. But there is the waste to consider, among other issues.

 

Somewhere around here I have a patch from the USS Coral Sea that says Fossil Fuel Forever. Cold Iron is the status of the Engineering Plant of a US Navy Vessel that is not generating steam, and is receiving hotel services from the pier.

 

Given the current situation and how electricity is produced, including government subsidies for alternatives I will be burning fossil fuel in my vehicles until I fart dust. And it is not going to be downstream through electricity if I can help it. Really don't give a damn about butt torque. Can it get me though the next flooded road from the dam beaver damns. Or something like that.

 

22167126582_d4c850bca9_b.jpg

 

Light fires, 1 Alpha boiler. Or reactor. V6 or V8 works too.

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salmontogue
3 minutes ago, Jazz4Brazo said:

I recall the post but not who made it and was hoping you would chime in on your follow in experiences. Have you had issues finding charging stations or just use home charging only...we only have one public parking garage in town that has a few spaces that I know of whereas when I travel to Redwood City corporate offices spots are everywhere including the office private lot. 

 

 

 

We live in Downeast Maine where towns are small but there are convenient charging stations and very few hybrid vehicles.  I seldom drive the volt because my wife is using it as a daily driver when she also could be using the Navigator or the Taurus SHO, go figure.  She knows every charging station at the various retail stores, food stores, banks, library, churches, restaurants and the electric company.  We paid less than one-quarter of the MSRP for a two and one half year old car with very low mileage and a new set of batteries should we need them.  That is incredibly cheap transportation.

 

Perk

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quailguy
1 hour ago, Cold Iron said:

An electric car requires charging by electricity, obviously. How is that electricity produced? For the most part fossil fuel. And there are layers in between that cause it to be less effective than direct combustion of fossil fuels. Yes there are government subsides to help reduce the reliance on fossil fuels, about getting ready to pay my taxes and don't get me started.

 

Having attended the Navy Nuclear Power Program back in the 70's I may, no am, biased. Haven't built many Nuke plants in the last 40 years due to legislation against it. But there is the waste to consider, among other issues.

 

 

  Oh the whole damn thing is as stupid as it can be from an actual power generation standpoint. Some of these folks act like the power fairy sends them electricity made out of thin air. Nonetheless Elon Musk's cars are a helluva lot of fun to drive. My friend's Tesla is a fun car and is actually well made. He got the one that needs charging at 240 miles. I think another $6-8k would have gotten them to 340 miles. But they have to do some close figuring on power charging stations when they travel. And that 240 miles is AC on, lights on, GPS on, stereo going, the whole enchilada.

  You know that an electric engine produces a helluva lot more torque, pound for pound, than an internal combustion engine. These Teslas have an electric engine for each wheel and do they scoot! 

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terrym

No doubt the logistics of electric car operation will eventually improve. Right now I see lots of people standing around charging stations playing with thier phones while thier $100k Teslas charge. They are actually quite popular up here. I bet I see a couple a week. There does seem to be more and more charging stations but compared to gas stations it's almost statistically insignificant. I'm in sales on the road and at this point it would be impossible to drive one but my wife only drives 20 minutes to the Honda dealership she works at and they just got a charging station so she could do it. 

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Greg Hartman

I have a wealthy client/friend who owns a Tesla.  That is one amazing (fast and quiet!) vehicle. 

 

I think this is like any other relatively new technology - early adopters put up with a lot of hassle, lack of supporting infrastructure, etc; but eventually we will all be using it without a second thought.  I remember when "car phones" first came out.  For business reasons and due to my wife's health, I got one of the very first.  It was a huge device that was installed under the driver's seat (this was in the days when the space under the seat was big and empty instead of full of little motors, wires and gears like now) and it had a handset like a regular dial telephone.  Service was VERY expensive and to reach you, a caller had to know what cell tower you were near and the code for that particular tower.  Even so, it was a miracle and a great boon to my practice and my peace of mind.  Compare that to the ubiquitous smart phone in your pocket....  I think we are at the same stage when it comes to e-cars, but eventually everyone will have one and they will drive themselves.

 

As for me personally, like B&T, I've gotten kinda long in the tooth at age 71 to safely handle the truly fast cars I owned in days gone by, but I still like sporty, open two-seaters.  My current toy car is relatively mild and good for an old man, but, with its mods, still mighty quick on tight courses.  Other kinds of vehicles, trucks, etc, are just boring tools to me and I wouldn't care how they were powered as long as they were cheap and reliable, but a two-seater brings a grin to my face every time.  My toy cars have always been rather heavily modified, usually including things like headers and exhaust systems - so they are not quiet.  Hearing that engine and supercharger scream on a winding mountain two-lane on a nice day is part of the fun.  To lose that element would be to lose a lot.

 

That said, fast is fast and technology moves forward.  Even my current two-seater (a modded Miata) would easily run circles around the fastest cars I had when I was young.  So, I'll not say that I wouldn't be willing to give an e-car a try.  Reality is that I can't afford something like a Tesla anymore - and I probably won't live long enough for the technology to become affordable, practical and commonplace, so all of this is likely moot.  Interesting nonetheless.

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gunsrus
6 hours ago, quailguy said:

 

  Oh the whole damn thing is as stupid as it can be from an actual power generation standpoint. Some of these folks act like the power fairy sends them electricity made out of thin air. Nonetheless Elon Musk's cars are a helluva lot of fun to drive. My friend's Tesla is a fun car and is actually well made. He got the one that needs charging at 240 miles. I think another $6-8k would have gotten them to 340 miles. But they have to do some close figuring on power charging stations when they travel. And that 240 miles is AC on, lights on, GPS on, stereo going, the whole enchilada.

  You know that an electric engine produces a helluva lot more torque, pound for pound, than an internal combustion engine. These Teslas have an electric engine for each wheel and do they scoot! 

 

I like "the power fairy sends them electricity made out of thin air" , made me laugh . All the "crazys" believe electricity comes from the receptacle . 

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BlacknTan

I could probably deal with an electric car if they included a computer generated soundtrack of what a throaty V8 would sound like as you're driving.

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Yukon1

Who knows, maybe we'll be able to buy some aftermarket headers or something to make our electric cars sound like our string trimmers or vacuum cleaners...

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Zoli 16ga.

the future is here.

 

 

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Craig Conroy

We have a nephew who's an electrical engineer for Tesla.  The battery technology is where it's at, for sure.  I keep volunteering to field test an appropriate version for NW Wisconsin for them, but, so far, they haven't taken me up on it ;).  So with knee surgery looming, we traded in our older 5 speed manual transmission car (I kept my manual tranny Jeep) on a 2018 CVT 1.5 litre turbo 180  hp internal combustion engine car.  Old technology?  Zero to 60 in 6.5 seconds,  still gets 40+ mpg on the highway;  I've been averaging over 38.  And the dog kennel fits in the rear hatchback, with one back seat folded down (just in case).  I can live with that :D.

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Birdcountry70

Nothing sounds as good as a powerfull gas powered v-8 with a good exhaust system.  Everthing else should be as quiet as possible in my opinion.  I'm wondering how a full electric vehicle accomplishes heater and defroster functions??  Surely not by electric heating elements.  That would send you looking for a charging station in a hurry I would think.  My area requires a heater 9 months per year so if it isn't a problem thats been figured out then it's another big reason why electric still isn't realistic here. 

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