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Electric Bike for upland hunting?


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12 minutes ago, martyg said:

 

Well.... not necessarily.

 

And that is the discussion that land managers are having - is an electric assist pedal bike motorized?

 

If you are driving a truck into an area it in no way resembles wilderness.

 

Depends upon the state DNR I guess but an electric motor is still a motor and electric assisted pedal bikes have motors. That is unless they have some kind of zero gravity propulsion system .  B|

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At one time I thought getting a Yamaha TW200 fat tired motorcycle and then a cart to pull behind it with crate. 

I checked out the Rad Power website. Here is the e-bike for hauling dogs:    

I purchased a Rad Mini folding fat tire bike a few weeks ago and will give it a big thumbs up! I did not buy the bike to use in a self powered mode, I have motorcycles if I want to ride that way. I us

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12 minutes ago, Virgil Kane said:

 

Depends upon the state DNR I guess but an electric motor is still a motor and electric assisted pedal bikes have motors. That is unless they have some kind of zero gravity propulsion system .  B|

 

Many municipalities have multi-use, pedestrian bike paths where "motorized vehicles" are not allowed, but class 1 e-bikes are. It is a modality of pedestrian transportation, and with it comes all of the benefits of people riding, instead of driving.

 

Cool if you believe in your definition, but it is not the way that things are evolving. Large user groups, from 20-somethings who commute to 80 year olds who still want to ride, see them as a viable alternative. Land managers, in general, or not hearing negative comments from other users about their presence, so they are being allowed as an evolution.

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4 hours ago, martyg said:

 

Many municipalities have multi-use, pedestrian bike paths where "motorized vehicles" are not allowed, but class 1 e-bikes are. It is a modality of pedestrian transportation, and with it comes all of the benefits of people riding, instead of driving.

 

Cool if you believe in your definition, but it is not the way that things are evolving. Large user groups, from 20-somethings who commute to 80 year olds who still want to ride, see them as a viable alternative. Land managers, in general, or not hearing negative comments from other users about their presence, so they are being allowed as an evolution.

 

IMO those that want to find a way around laws will.  That's the way I see things evolving. Everything is grey, no more black and white and I don't see that as cool. 

Now if someone would come up with something to make me run a 4.8 40 again I might be all over that.:D

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1 hour ago, Virgil Kane said:

 

IMO those that want to find a way around laws will.  That's the way I see things evolving. Everything is grey, no more black and white and I don't see that as cool. 

Now if someone would come up with something to make me run a 4.8 40 again I might be all over that.:D

 

A grizzly?

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2 hours ago, Virgil Kane said:

 

IMO those that want to find a way around laws will.  That's the way I see things evolving. Everything is grey, no more black and white and I don't see that as cool. 

Now if someone would come up with something to make me run a 4.8 40 again I might be all over that.:D

 

As bobman said, a grizzly may do it. 🙂

 

I don't see it as finding a way around the law. I see it as an evolution. Just as these discussions took place in various forms when derailleurs came out, aero bars, aero wheels, moving seat tube angles forward. front suspension, rear suspension, etc.

 

Trust me when I say that no town in the US is more a part of mtn biking than Durango. This year 25% of the entire team that the US sent to the world championships came from our town of 18,000. One of our locals took second. A local won the Cape Epic in South Africa - mtn biking's version of the Tour de France this year. Our local college has almost 30 consecutive national titles and we have 8 - 10 world champions living here. I could go on and on...

 

Yet despite local talent that can and does compete and win everywhere in the world, despite that high level of talent that trickles down to casual riders (our Sunday social rides average 23mph) there is a great deal of tolerance for e-bikes. Everyone, from the world-champions to city commissioners recognizes that e-bikes are going to be the future of cycling on so many levels, and allow people to continue to enjoy cycling as they get up in years.

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Just my opinions of course  but then I believe in tradition.  Social riding has nothing to do with the laws that are dictated by the DNR. You want e-bikes on mountain bike trails, on the roads, or on designated trails, fine with me but if the law states no motorized vehicles on certain trails, well , I'll go by the traditional meaning of that until the laws or the meaning of the word "NO" changes.  There are many places in Wisconsin ( the state the OP is referring to I believe) that you can ride e-bikes. But on trails marked "NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES" I believe the word "NO" is the key word.  You may differ but then that's your right.  I'll stick with what I feel is right by the laws.  Besides this whole discussion was started so the OP is aware and doesn't get busted by the DNR.  I'm sure a quick call to the DNR would get the answer of legality or not.   I have read your posts before and I know your big into cycling so you probably have a very different view than I do and that's fine. It's what makes the world go round. 

 

Bobman is probably right, a griz would do that and that may be my fountain of youth when it comes to track and field events.

 

 

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Hmm, I'd never considered it before but a mountain bike would sure help with the mile-in mile-out hike to some of my covers.

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13 hours ago, martyg said:

 

Many municipalities have multi-use, pedestrian bike paths where "motorized vehicles" are not allowed, but class 1 e-bikes are. It is a modality of pedestrian transportation, and with it comes all of the benefits of people riding, instead of driving.

 

Cool if you believe in your definition, but it is not the way that things are evolving. Large user groups, from 20-somethings who commute to 80 year olds who still want to ride, see them as a viable alternative. Land managers, in general, or not hearing negative comments from other users about their presence, so they are being allowed as an evolution.

 

Problem is, enforcement of car vs foot is easy, enforcement of class 1 vs class 2 e-bike is not. As I mentioned, I commute via good old fashioned oatmeal-powered bicycle, but I am constantly having issues with class 2/3 e-bike driving at unsafe speeds, driving unpredictably, and making unsafe maneuvers on a MUP that they are expressly not allowed on. Worth noting that while vehemently posted along the MUP, the NPS has yet to issue a single ticket for the offence on this MUP. 

 

Impact-wise w/r/t fire/FS road or otherwise, I don't give a hoot - I'm sure the throttle-powered e-bikes churn up a bit more dirt than pedal-powered 30x42 low range, but it is negligible at best. 

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WI Outdoor Nut
I contacted the WI DNR and below is their statement.  The "gray" area would be MLF Open and other types of properties and are not owned by the state, but we are allowed to hunt. 
 
Margaret:
Legally, at this time, a motorized bicycle of any kind (electric or otherwise) can be used by anyone without the motor engaged on a facility that allows bicycles (designated bike trails). Any other use of a motorized bicycle on state property (or any public bikeway, in fact) is not allowed under Wisconsin laws.
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23 hours ago, martyg said:

is an electric assist pedal bike motorized?

Might depend on the state. Rhode Island does not require electric bikes to be licensed.

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9 hours ago, E.Young said:

 

Problem is, enforcement of car vs foot is easy, enforcement of class 1 vs class 2 e-bike is not. As I mentioned, I commute via good old fashioned oatmeal-powered bicycle, but I am constantly having issues with class 2/3 e-bike driving at unsafe speeds, driving unpredictably, and making unsafe maneuvers on a MUP that they are expressly not allowed on. Worth noting that while vehemently posted along the MUP, the NPS has yet to issue a single ticket for the offence on this MUP. 

 

Impact-wise w/r/t fire/FS road or otherwise, I don't give a hoot - I'm sure the throttle-powered e-bikes churn up a bit more dirt than pedal-powered 30x42 low range, but it is negligible at best. 

 

E - I don't see the problem as e-bikes. I see the problem as ass-clowns on _____________ (e-bikes, ORVs, mtn bikes, road bikes, 'cross bikes, horses, pick-up trucks, walking , walking with their dog , walking with their kids - insert one). It is a issue with behavior, not the bike. I can also exhibit that behavior on a pedal bike.

 

We just finished a year long pilot program of allowing e-bikes on paved bike paths. In one year there were zero negative comments. Although cycling is a bit more ingrained in our culture here.

 

Our big issue is a-holes from other states coming here with ORV  and driving places where they shouldnb't be. Or that group from Texas or Oklahoma dragging a big RV behind a pick-up truck on narrow gravel mtn roads and getting their rally driving on and leaving garbage 2-miles in the backcountry - because that is as far as their legs and lungs can take them.

 

For the record I am no stranger to the NoVA scene. On days that I wasn't racing I used to commute 2 hours from Quantico to Tyson's on my bike. At the end of he day I'd ride an hour into the city, meet my wife who managed Tony & Joe's, have dinner, and we'd catch HOV out.

 

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27 minutes ago, WI Outdoor Nut said:
I contacted the WI DNR and below is their statement.  The "gray" area would be MLF Open and other types of properties and are not owned by the state, but we are allowed to hunt. 
 
Margaret:
Legally, at this time, a motorized bicycle of any kind (electric or otherwise) can be used by anyone without the motor engaged on a facility that allows bicycles (designated bike trails). Any other use of a motorized bicycle on state property (or any public bikeway, in fact) is not allowed under Wisconsin laws.

 

"... at this time..." is the key here. As I pointed out in an earlier post, e-bikes are causing land managers to have an entirely new conversation - one spurred on by new technology. It is reminiscent of conversation when mtn biking became a new user group.

 

This is not unlike conversations about the legal and moral ramifications of stem cell research, growing organs, IA, the reach of government, IP and so many other issues surrounding internet, etc. Technology is pushing the boundaries of previous laws and standards, causing a conversation and a re examination of standards.

 

If, for example, we have widely available technology where prognostics that transfer and interpret nerve impulses are available, and they use a battery, do we allow that user group on non-motorized trails? Are they allowed in designated wilderness areas? If you read the rules / regs surrounding wilderness areas, and are a "traditionalists", I would argue that user group is Sh** out of luck. Should someone with a pacemaker be allowed on those trails? Clearly they need a mechanized device for transportation.

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I actually hope e-bike users continue abuse the rules and take much higher power (greater than 750Watt) bikes in locations where only Class 1 bikes are supposed to be allowed, and yes that is happening as E. Young notes.

 

To me it should be very simple, a trail/lane either allows motorized vehicles, or it does not. It's fine to have speed limits but it's ridiculous to start splitting hairs over whether or not a bike's motor is only engaged via pedal or a throttle. Why is 750watts the magic number and why is a 100 pound woman allowed 750watts, while a 270lb man is also only allowed the same sized motor, the performance will be very different? It's a rat's nest of rules and what ifs. 

 

I understand plenty of folks, especially e-bike advocates, feel differently than me but my take is keep it simple: Allow motorized vehicles, or don't.

If it needs to be electric only, fine. Use speed limits as the limit not the technical specifications of the machine. I'm pretty sure CA has a fairly complex table to show all the different classes of e-bikes and where they are and aren't allowed and it's kind of a joke. It's currently super easy for people to circumvent the rules and get away with it, and plenty do.

 

 

 

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I think an e fatbike would be a good way to get down two track/singletrack to a deer stand but I'm not sold on having the dog run beside it as an option. 

Marty, I am surprised that there is such tolerance there for ebikes as the MTB community seem to really hate having ebikes on the trails here in the midwest.  On the bike trails there seems to be a lot more tolerance and has become an accepted form of transport on the bike paths that don't allow any other motors.  I'm cool with both because my outlook or ideology is pretty simple.  If people are outdoors having fun and being safe its all good.  

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