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Disrespectful Hunters


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As a retired Game Warden and a long time hunter, I have always sharply defined the terms "hunter" and "poacher" as two entirely different beings, something most media outlets fail to do to push their

I have caught this trespasser/poacher on my trail cams the last 3 nights.  I've started packing my .44 whenever I'm out with the dog!

Interesting and timely subject. The privatization of hunting and fishing in this country by lease or ownership has really picked up steam in recent years. Semantics aside I have to agree with Bob

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5 minutes ago, bobman said:

Our license enables that jump and it’s purchased from the state ie the public

 

 

Nah, not the right to take public game from private property without landowner permission...SelbyLowndes

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Selby I want to make it clear I hold no personal animosity towards you, it’s just how things evolved.

 

Im just talking philosophy 

 

 

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I'll go with that and the fact is  that I agree with you about the detriment to hunting leasing has become.  I too grew up hunting (mostly) where I pleased.  Times have changed...SelbyLowndes

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I will say this I believe this leasing phenomenon will drastically cut access nationwide in states with little state and federal lands

 

If I was in my twenties or thirties and hoped to hunt the rest of my life I would move to a western state with massive federal lands before my children and wife anchored me

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Selby

thanks I always enjoy reading your point  of view and read your posts with interest

 

we agree more than we disagree

Bob

 

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Birdcountry70

Good post Oak Stob.   Although my state is somewhat of a sportsman's paradise,  we are not immune to the headaches of hunting leases here in MT.                   As Brad mentioned,  the details of this topic vary by region.   One thing that must be different in my area is that almost all birdhunters are also big game hunters.  I know many big game hunters who don't hunt birds but not one person who hunts only birds and not big game.   People here tend to be into all the hunting and fishing sports or none. 

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:15 AM, Brad Eden said:

In Maine where land is 95% privately owned...(not sure about VT) hunters of any critter live and die by the legal access to unposted property law. Not all of us can afford our private 100's of acres private preserve. Thats why I cringe when I see "Post It" being bantered about. The day Maine becomes a leased land state and access to private property ends is the day I pack up and drive away into the sunset. If the problems are egregious, I agree that Hunting by Permission Only signs may be an alternative.

Here in Idaho we have a lot of public land which is great for big game and some bird hunting (both prairie and forest grouse, chukars and some quail hunting), but most pheasant and some quail, sharpie and hun hunting is better on private lands. We've have a horrible new trespass law with steep fines that borders on entrapment. But most landowners with hunting by permission only are pretty amenable to folks bird hunting their land when you ask them. As long as you close gates, stay on roads, pick up after self and don't present your self as a slob you'll usually be allowed to come back. And Brad you're welcome to come out anytime. We are in the direction of your sunset.

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On 10/27/2018 at 3:52 PM, bobman said:

Our license enables that jump and it’s purchased from the state ie the public

 

Bobman,  I've looked at a couple of state's fish and game web sites and nowhere is there an indication of ownership of the wild animals or wildlife.  Just the name itself indicates free and not domesticated.  The states manage these wild resources,  but do not own it.  JMO

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I'm happily unemployed now but I practiced law for 45 years.  I try not to argue anymore because it upsets my digestion and nobody pays me for it.  I see Bobman's point perfectly well, but his notion of public ownership collides with both the definition of wild animal and with the law of property rights...SelbyLowndes

 

Ferae naturae is a Latin word which means, of a wild nature. Animal ferae naturaeare not subject of absolute ownership. A qualified property in such animals might be acquired by taking or taming them or while they are on one's estate.
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On 10/26/2018 at 12:32 PM, SelbyLowndes said:

I post every inch of my land; and lease the deer rights out to  hunting clubs.  The clubs pay enough that they are happy to take over the chore of policing the would-be trespassers off the land.  I also entered into an enhanced enforcement agreement with the state DNR which provides for extra attention in return for my guarantee to cooperate with prosecutions.

 

When I first started accumulating hunting land I felt bad about excluding the public.  No more, the freeloaders can stay home or enjoy each other's company on Georgia's ample public hunting accommodations!...SelbyLowndes  

This post kinda got to me a little. I think the irony is that the roots of our blue-collar American hunting tradition is pretty much based on 'freeloading' - only relatively recently have the hunt clubs become a common fixture on the landscape.  Most of us north of age 40 owe our interest in this sport to ample access to land and game for nothing or close to it, and most of us can remember a time when it was better than it is now.  I'm by no means for trespassing and disrespecting land, landowners, and game, but let's try not to forget that most hunters are just looking for a good experience out there and get it right ethically most of the time.  There are some pretty good folks who've hung up their gear because they got priced out of the game and that's a loss for all of us. 

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Hunting leases come in all sizes and prices.  Most of the members of the clubs on my land are young men with boys (or girls) and who want a secure safe environment to introduce their kids to a hunting heritage.  Any exclusion comes from a personal decision not to make the investment.  GA has lots of state and federal public land.  I never liked hunting on public property because of the unknown quality of the folks I might meet there in the woods.

 

I'm 70 and have been hunting/fishing since before I was 10.  My Dad didn't have land and leasing had not been thought of as far as i know when i was growing up. We depended upon family friends who allowed me access to their rural property.  There was no free access back then and I didn't go where I didn't have permission.  Landowners were careful who they allowed to access their lands.

 

When I began, as an adult to acquire land investments of my own I followed that model for years and allowed my friends to use my property.  Taxes had to be paid though and when you are depending upon a timber crop harvests come at pretty long intervals.  My biggest problem was trespassers since I am an absentee land owner.  However, I had a number of problems from 'friends' who became somewhat proprietary regarding my property, extending use to their friends and relatives, and eventually falling out among each other about whose area of the woods 'belonged' to who.  When one of my teenage sons was told he could not hunt a particular area he wanted to, I had  had enough.

 

About the same time the leasing model became a reality in my state.  I advised those friends who'd previously had free range at my expense that they were welcome to join the new hunting club.  Some did, some "unfriended" me for taking back my property.  My taxes get paid, I don't have the constant worry of patrolling for trespassers, someone else keeps up the road system and sees that the gates stay up and secured.  The clubs have their own rules and they determine who hunts where.  Their choice has been a first come system where all stands are marked on a map and hunters choose their stands with the security of knowing no one else will wander in on them.  The leasing system works well for me and for the club members as well as for the members of my family who hunt the property along with the lessees. 

 

The lessees hunt strictly by the game laws in effect, and I certainly do not see myself as selling deer to them.  What I do is share the burden of property ownership with the club members and allow them in return the privilege of hunting deer on my land. I won't be changing my practice in this regard.

 

It is unfortunate that this discussion comes under a thread about "slob hunters", because other than outright poachers and people who just cannot get along anywhere, I've always enjoyed the company of other hunters.  I don't feel as if I've been disrespected by hunters, but I don't feel I owe anyone free access to my own property either.  GA has very strict trespass laws and local jurisdictions enforce them harshly. 

 

The post that got me fired up here was the one which offered the idea that the wild animals hunted on my land were public property and so the public somehow had a right to hunt where ever they might be.  The only thing public about the deer living on my land is that the Government (not the public) has a public trust authority to regulate the hunting...SelbyLowndes

 

   

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