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HUNTING ND? MAYBE NOT


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Not every landowner enjoys the stream of hunters asking for permission. They get lunches, dinners, tv shows, tractor repairs and everything else interrupted by hunters. They can easily lose a couple o

No, they have a treadmill mentality that crop acres, any crop acres, are better than taking the poor quality land out of production to lower costs. Taxpayers subsidize it through the farm program. At

It's DEAD!  By 4 votes. A heartfelt thank you to those who helped. Remo

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The bill is still in limbo. It has to come out of committee on Thursday or Friday depending on the schedule. Then goes to the floor next week unless they withdraw it completely. So we wait.

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sharptail grouse

Hi all - new here. I've been following this thread and thought I'd add a little insight.

I am a long time MT resident in a rural area that is a "destination" for many bird hunting folks. I was here before MT changed its trespass law to a statute more in line with what ND is proposing. I have bird hunted extensively under both laws. While I understand the almost universal push back from UJ folks I am here to tell you its not the end of the world. It just changes things. One of the biggest things I noticed after our law change was that hunters had to become much more accountable for their actions. We actually had to take the time to seek out the landowners, knock on their doors, listen to them bitch about their problems, listen to them brag about their kids and generally get to know them and they us. We had to learn and understand boundaries. We started picking up our empties. We couldn't just head behind the nearest grain bin to leave our messes in the open when nature called. We couldn't just drive across the field to hunt the shelter belt tenderloin cover - the landowners know who is on the place now. In short we had to build relationships and by doing so we began to build a list of places where we are always welcome (with a little notice). We were also able to (in some cases) put in a plug for the birds and now I have landowners that take an active interest in bird populations where before they were just a by-product that invited the hassle of bird season. And make no mistake - it is a hassle for some folks. I get where you are coming from - this can lead to land locked up in leases. My experience has been that if you build positive relationships with landowners they are less likely to lease. Many of the folks I hunt on considered leasing before simply because it took away the hassle of trespass during bird season, not because it made them money. Now, believe it or not, some of these folks have actually said they would feel guilty about leasing because their hunting "friends" would have no place to go. If this passes in ND it will be a change. But it will also be an opportunity. Use it or lose it as you wish.

TIP: Best not to show up with a carload of your pals opening weekend dressed to hunt. Small parties are more acceptable than Suburbans bristling with weaponry😉

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I have worked with the ND Sportsmen's Etree for 18 years following the access & hunting related bills in the ND legislature. Every time the sportsmen gave an inch on the trespass law they lost access. Every single time, in spite of assurances to the contrary. In the spirit of compromise I think it is time to reverse that trend for the public with a big NO on SB-2315. Our state has bumped along for 90 years with the current law.

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sharptail grouse

Remo - I understand your angst - as I said - I've been there. But in the end its private lands that we are talking about - they can lock you out anytime they want to anyway. I can even imagine some blow back from landowners who don't like sportsmen telling them what they can or can't do with their land.

 I don't doubt that some access will be lost - I know it will. My point is that if you go about it from a different angle you may well ensure access in some cases and gain some landowner friends in the process. That's money in the bank in my view. 

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I'll side with those hoping the bill goes down.

 

North Dakota landowners have had the right to restrict access to their land. I too, have bird hunted in Montana both before and after the trespass law was changed. Previously all a Montana landowner needed to post his land was a can(s) of orange spray paint. Spray paint on fence posts or gates and the public knew the status of a field. It worked just fine for all concerned.

 

Not every hunter lives in a rural setting that easily facilitates developing relationships with numerous landowners. Combine that with the fluctuation in bird populations, it is not easy to know enough landowners to have much certainty that you will enjoy good hunting.

 

No one is suggesting that a land owner cannot post their land. 

 

I came of age in North Dakota and greatly appreciated the trespass law that has been in place for generations. I remember us being smart enough not to trash a place so that the farmer would feel compelled to post the land. That sense must be fairly widespread or the law would have been changed long ago.

 

 

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I've wrote this so many places in the last weeks that is hard to remember where...Three of the larger farmers in my county don't post anything but the home 1/4. Probably a 100,000 acres open from those 3 alone. They are in the grain business and for them time is money so they do not want to chat with an endless stream of hunters. Be respectful of the land and the owner and go hunt. There are many more in my county who do the same for various reasons, myself included. Yet a few ag groups insist on a blanket no trespass bill for everybody. One  rancher testified in the hearing he had too much land to post.... Kind of like having too much money to count IMO. 

 

These are the same guys who put a prohibition by law on willing seller-willing buyer of land here. No one in ND can sell their private land to a conservation group, NDGF, or USFW without the approval of 3 different levels of state government, county commissioners, natural areas acquisition committee, and the ND governor. Guess who makes up the board of the  natural areas acquisition committee? And guess how many of those sales get approved? And that is just one case of state law like this, there are many.

 

So, I'm done backing up and so are many sportsmen in ND. If you want to get something you have to give something and there is no give on the other side. Only take.

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sharptail grouse

406dn - I know landowners who wondered why it was that they had to go thru the time and effort to go buy the spray paint and spend the time necessary to go around every year and spray all those posts. Yes it worked for some, but in the end many didn't feel that they needed to paint posts to keep people off land that belonged to them anyway. Would you feel a need to post your yard or would you expect people to respect your private property? And I have never felt as though good hunting was a  sure thing. Many of my spots were nearly bird free this year due to the last two year's weather conditions, That's the way it rolls. Hopefully next year will be better. And yes - its a good idea not to trash land if you want to come back. Many apparently don't see it that way.

I don't hunt ND, so I have no dog in the fight. I was just trying to show folks that its not the end of the world if this law passes. You and I are both still hunting here in MT to prove it. For those that hunt ND and depend entirely on this generational trespass law staying the way it is I wish you luck. But don't discount actually talking to landowners as a hedge to gain access. You may gain more in the end.

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13 hours ago, sharptail grouse said:

Hi all - new here. I've been following this thread and thought I'd add a little insight.

I am a long time MT resident in a rural area that is a "destination" for many bird hunting folks. I was here before MT changed its trespass law to a statute more in line with what ND is proposing. I have bird hunted extensively under both laws. While I understand the almost universal push back from UJ folks I am here to tell you its not the end of the world. It just changes things. One of the biggest things I noticed after our law change was that hunters had to become much more accountable for their actions. We actually had to take the time to seek out the landowners, knock on their doors, listen to them bitch about their problems, listen to them brag about their kids and generally get to know them and they us. We had to learn and understand boundaries. We started picking up our empties. We couldn't just head behind the nearest grain bin to leave our messes in the open when nature called. We couldn't just drive across the field to hunt the shelter belt tenderloin cover - the landowners know who is on the place now. In short we had to build relationships and by doing so we began to build a list of places where we are always welcome (with a little notice). We were also able to (in some cases) put in a plug for the birds and now I have landowners that take an active interest in bird populations where before they were just a by-product that invited the hassle of bird season. And make no mistake - it is a hassle for some folks. I get where you are coming from - this can lead to land locked up in leases. My experience has been that if you build positive relationships with landowners they are less likely to lease. Many of the folks I hunt on considered leasing before simply because it took away the hassle of trespass during bird season, not because it made them money. Now, believe it or not, some of these folks have actually said they would feel guilty about leasing because their hunting "friends" would have no place to go. If this passes in ND it will be a change. But it will also be an opportunity. Use it or lose it as you wish.

TIP: Best not to show up with a carload of your pals opening weekend dressed to hunt. Small parties are more acceptable than Suburbans bristling with weaponry😉

If you are insinuating that this anti hunter law is needed to deal with slob hunters that is a slap to all here that pursue upland game.  Slobs are going to be slobs regardless of the law and from personal experience and numerous growers I know that locals that feel entitled are often the largest offenders.  

I don't have problems working with landowners, fixing a wire gap or helping move cattle or equipment, but it can be very difficult to find out if the promising quarter section is controlled by a cardiologist in Chicago, a widow in town or a large grower from 2 counties over.  Make no mistake, changing this law is driven by those who wish to profit from leasing land and see the  land open to hunting as competition. 

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8 hours ago, co_setter said:

If you are insinuating that this anti hunter law is needed to deal with slob hunters that is a slap to all here that pursue upland game.  Slobs are going to be slobs regardless of the law and from personal experience and numerous growers I know that locals that feel entitled are often the largest offenders.  

I don't have problems working with landowners, fixing a wire gap or helping move cattle or equipment, but it can be very difficult to find out if the promising quarter section is controlled by a cardiologist in Chicago, a widow in town or a large grower from 2 counties over.  Make no mistake, changing this law is driven by those who wish to profit from leasing land and see the  land open to hunting as competition. 

I’m all for open Hunting , but just really struggling how this effects leasing of land ? That’s been going on ND since he eaely 2000’s , how does this directly affect if a farmer is willing to lease or not ?

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14 minutes ago, GB Jack said:

I’m all for open Hunting , but just really struggling how this effects leasing of land ? That’s been going on ND since he eaely 2000’s , how does this directly affect if a farmer is willing to lease or not ?

 

A blanket no trespass law eliminates competition for pay to play by removing free access for hunters. Example. A candy store has a store on either side of it giving away free candy. So the candy store gets a law passed eliminating free candy.

SB-2315 has to come out of committee today or tomorrow so we'll see what shakes out here in ND.

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sharptail grouse

GB Jack - I agree. Ground has been leased by outfitters and wealthy folks around here since before our trespass law was changed.

 

And co_setter - I am not insinuating that all hunters are slobs, so please don't insinuate that I am😉 

If your ND landowners feel that locals are the most serious offenders it might be worth pointing out to them that there are bad eggs in every crowd local or otherwise.The local landowners around here are far more likely to blame hunters from out of state or from "the city". I'm not saying its right, just saying that's the general feeling. I know this because I started hunting here many years ago when I was from the "city". Regardless- they feel that if they know who is on the land at any given time they can weed out the a******s that disrespect the privilege. And those guys do get weeded out, believe me. As far as figuring out land ownership - that sort of thing happens to me all the time. Usually a little sleuthing among those landowners you do know will tell you where to go to find who is leasing/care taking the parcel. That usually means the person in charge of permission. Failing that I just go look for another promising quarter section. It sounds like you already know quite a few landowners so in the event that this law changes you should be well on your way.

 

To those who will be affected by this - Good Luck in all sincerity. Again - I'm not trying to get you to stop fighting it, I was just trying to help people see the other side of it in case this privilege goes down like it did in MT many years ago. My apologies if I offended anyone.

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50 minutes ago, sharptail grouse said:

GB Jack - I agree. Ground has been leased by outfitters and wealthy folks around here since before our trespass law was changed.

 

And co_setter - I am not insinuating that all hunters are slobs, so please don't insinuate that I am😉 

If your ND landowners feel that locals are the most serious offenders it might be worth pointing out to them that there are bad eggs in every crowd local or otherwise.The local landowners around here are far more likely to blame hunters from out of state or from "the city". I'm not saying its right, just saying that's the general feeling. I know this because I started hunting here many years ago when I was from the "city". Regardless- they feel that if they know who is on the land at any given time they can weed out the a******s that disrespect the privilege. And those guys do get weeded out, believe me. As far as figuring out land ownership - that sort of thing happens to me all the time. Usually a little sleuthing among those landowners you do know will tell you where to go to find who is leasing/care taking the parcel. That usually means the person in charge of permission. Failing that I just go look for another promising quarter section. It sounds like you already know quite a few landowners so in the event that this law changes you should be well on your way.

 

To those who will be affected by this - Good Luck in all sincerity. Again - I'm not trying to get you to stop fighting it, I was just trying to help people see the other side of it in case this privilege goes down like it did in MT many years ago. My apologies if I offended anyone.

 

No problem. And welcome to UJ.

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Keith E. Carlson

One of the problems of this type law is that it makes it difficult to find who owns what land and how to get in touch with them.

In our area much land is owned/leased by farmers who do not live on the property.

 

Idaho Fish and Game has a program, Access Yes, that helps to some extent.

IDFG contracts with landowners to provide hunting access and publishes a list and restrictions by area.

Works fairly well.

 

https://idfg.idaho.gov/yes

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