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Jazz4Brazo

10,000 Mile Oil Changes?? New Vehicle Break In Period??

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Jazz4Brazo
1 hour ago, chilly460 said:

Maybe I'm just dense, but just cannot understand how an oil filter can be designed in such a way as to go 20k....assuming that the max life for a filter is normally say 10k.  You have a set filter size, you have filter media of a set size to filter out impurities of a certain size.  How is there going to be a difference in that filter, within these parameters, that's going to magically make it able to filter effectively for a longer period?  Either they're enlarging the media to allow larger impurities to pass to not become blocked and go into bypass...or...?  

 

Seems from the anecdotal evidence that it simply doesn't matter as guys are clearly going 10k between changes and running them over 200k with no issues.  Guess I'm a dinosaur thinking 5k was stretching it.  

 

I have not done a deep dive into filter construction but can advise that there are typically 3 types of filter media available for cartridge type construction....depth filters (high particle loading capacity that have nominal size ratings @ 60 -80% efficiency but susceptible to break through if exposed to high transmembrane differential pressures...say 10 - 15 psi), surface membranes (medium loading capacities that have nominal size ratings @ 90 - 95% efficiencies but also susceptible to breakthrough but at higher TMPs ~> 25 PSI) and membrane filters (absolute size rating with low loading and breakthrough only occurs upon mechanical failure of filter and/or housing).

 

The above is not exclusive (there are lore than 2 types if you really dive deep and there are many different types of material construction that impact performance/use parameters like temp/pH/solvent comparability, etc.) and differs by manufacturer but should get the point across that by using a combination of membrane types and materials into a single filter unit you can increase both service life and performance and can tailor the filtered oil make up to meet engine performance requirements...all doable for a cost/performance/service life outcome...just my 2 cents here.

 

J4B 

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Sulliesbrew

I follow the computer on my Silverado, usually ends up around 7k. 8 quarts of 0W-20 isn't that cheap really, but not expensive either.

 

I drove a Mini cooper that had 12k interval and after a computer flash at the dealership it was reset to 15k. That engine blew up at 133k miles and exceeded the average engine life by 15kish miles. Oil changes at the dealership were nearly $160... You had to move the coolant reservoir to get to the cartridge filter that dumped oil all over when removed. That car was a POS, specifically the engine. Never touched a suspension part in that 133k miles. 

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chilly460
57 minutes ago, Jazz4Brazo said:

 

I have not done a deep dive into filter construction but can advise that there are typically 3 types of filter media available for cartridge type construction....depth filters (high particle loading capacity that have nominal size ratings @ 60 -80% efficiency but susceptible to break through if exposed to high transmembrane differential pressures...say 10 - 15 psi), surface membranes (medium loading capacities that have nominal size ratings @ 90 - 95% efficiencies but also susceptible to breakthrough but at higher TMPs ~> 25 PSI) and membrane filters (absolute size rating with low loading and breakthrough only occurs upon mechanical failure of filter and/or housing).

 

The above is not exclusive (there are lore than 2 types if you really dive deep and there are many different types of material construction that impact performance/use parameters like temp/pH/solvent comparability, etc.) and differs by manufacturer but should get the point across that by using a combination of membrane types and materials into a single filter unit you can increase both service life and performance and can tailor the filtered oil make up to meet engine performance requirements...all doable for a cost/performance/service life outcome...just my 2 cents here.

 

J4B 

I may have to burn $15 and cut apart a few filters to see the difference.  I've cut filters apart when doing engine rebuilds to check them after break-in, a decent quality "normal" Motorcraft filter has what looks like pleated heavy paper inside, no multiple media layers.  Interesting to see the difference in the 20k filters.  

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dogrunner

I don’t need to tear them apart I’ve been using them for over 20 years to go 10,000 or more miles. 

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stephen brown

I think the 1k change is overkill, but it doesn't do harm.  

 

Older DINO OIL cars seem to do just fine on a 3k-5k interval. I'd expect the SYN OIL engines wouldn't wear with 7k-10l interval.

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OutlawTorn
5 hours ago, 406dn said:

Change the oil every 50 miles if it makes you sleep better. 

 

There is NO WAY an auto manufacturer would willfully recommend an oil change interval that they KNEW would cause the engine to fail before its time. That is a lawyer's wet dream.

 

The last three vehicles we've had have an oil life gauge. I have our's changed when the oil life reading is somewhere between 10-20%. It just depends if there is a longer trip coming up.

 

This.

 

What do you suppose the oil life gauge is measuring?  I know it's not miles (or at least not just miles) - I get different miles at the same % life remaining every oil change in my '16 RAM 2500...but usually it's somewhere around 8k (+/- 500) when it hits 10%.  My guess is it's more complicated than most of us realize - maybe comparing expected temps for a given RPM with measured readings over a period, driving habits alongside just straight mileage?

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406dn
2 hours ago, Sulliesbrew said:

I follow the computer on my Silverado, usually ends up around 7k. 8 quarts of 0W-20 isn't that cheap really, but not expensive either.

 

I drove a Mini cooper that had 12k interval and after a computer flash at the dealership it was reset to 15k. That engine blew up at 133k miles and exceeded the average engine life by 15kish miles. Oil changes at the dealership were nearly $160... You had to move the coolant reservoir to get to the cartridge filter that dumped oil all over when removed. That car was a POS, specifically the engine. Never touched a suspension part in that 133k miles. 

 

My brother has a Mini. I had no idea they were designed so that changing oil was nearly impossible. For whatever reason he still loves driving his.

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Marc Ret
4 hours ago, jeff88 said:

I've wondered about this. ^  A good buddy sells Jags and Land Rovers, he says they are told that new cars today are fine going to 10K and he plans to follow this schedule with a new Jag he bought last year.   He used to sell Lexus and said it's true of their cars as well.  This guy is a real "car nut" and he's been a good person to know when I'm looking for new rides.  

 

My post was intended as a comment on Craig's response. It's just as easy to be suspect of the corner garage selling you a $30 oil change as it is the corporation trying to sell you a $50,000 vehicle every couple years. Pierre's wish is a couple hundred thousand miles of service from his new vehicles, I hope he gets it. He'll have to decide if he trusts Toyota's suggestions or not to get there. 

 

Just a thought- Would the recommended oil change intervals stay the same if the manufacturers warranted an engine for 250,000 miles as opposed to 60,000 miles?

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Sulliesbrew
1 hour ago, 406dn said:

For whatever reason he still loves driving his

It was so dang much fun to drive, but the R56S generation was utter garbage on the engine. I got my first and only speeding ticket ever within 5 days of ownership, apparently taking corners at 45 in a 30 is too fast...

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markbrit

2012 Toyota Tundra. I did first oil change at 2,500 for break in. Then at 10k. Toyota says 10k intervals. I use Mobil 1.

 

I too was curious and actually sent my oil to Blackstone Labs for analysis since I towed a camper. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

My Dad pounded routine oil changes in my head, but I think you OK with 10k intervals. 

 

Here are my reports at 20k and 40k miles.

 

 

12-TUNDRA-012814.jpg

12-TUNDRA-070315.jpg

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dogrunner
2 hours ago, markbrit said:

2012 Toyota Tundra. I did first oil change at 2,500 for break in. Then at 10k. Toyota says 10k intervals. I use Mobil 1.

 

I too was curious and actually sent my oil to Blackstone Labs for analysis since I towed a camper. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

My Dad pounded routine oil changes in my head, but I think you OK with 10k intervals. 

 

Here are my reports at 20k and 40k miles.

 

 

12-TUNDRA-012814.jpg

12-TUNDRA-070315.jpg

Pretty sure Mobil 1 makes Toyota oil with maybe a different add pack. So I think that’s why a couple numbers are different but the Properties are pretty close. How come they didn’t run the TBN the first time? Plus I doubt they we’re using a good filter. 

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dogrunner

I like the Fram because it has a Smaller Micron rating. 

E4CC8846-35CF-496B-B9E7-CC568CB80DDC.jpeg

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Cold Iron
On 2/4/2020 at 2:18 PM, Jazz4Brazo said:

I've always adhered to oil changes are cheap so why not...will probably continue the same with these 2 using the synthetic at around the 7500 mark 🙂

 

Here's a pic of the new hunting rig...had 1 mile on it when I took possession...

 

 

20200201_123458.jpg

 

Damn really wished you would not have posted that.. LIKE!

 

Well the color... Not  the Army green weenie so much but you make it look good. My first 4x4 was a FJ55 in the late 70's though the mid 80's. White with red stripe wagon wheels.

 

23444438242_b2e56ef7bd.jpg

 

Spent the better part of 20 years dealing with the Navy Oil Analysis Program, NOAP. With main engine and reduction gears including aux equipment. 

 

My 2013 Taco Baja 2013 only has 58K on it and is paid for. But am getting close to retirement and trying to decide on the 4Runner TRD offroad or Lexus GX. That picture pretty much  make up my mind. Love that the Taco is paid for. Hate new vehicle cost. But what will be my final vehicle no matter I decide on it will get 1K oil change. And 5K oil changes.

 

The real benefit of synthetic oil is cold weather start up. 

 

Oil has a function, from hydroscopic wedge to cooling metal to metal contact. Does not matter what type of oil it is.

 

~20 years ago took what is now the Ex wive's vehicle in for paid for maintenance. There was a shop magazine there aimed at the mechanics and the feature article was about going from 3k oil change intervals to 5k and for some manufactures to to 7.5.

 

Said it started when some environmental groups from California got together and ligated against manufactures for getting rid of a limited resource (oil) that in many cases was good for more than 3K miles.

 

Which is true. In some cases. Especially if you live in Ca. 30  below zero not so much from my experience...

 

The article said at the time that most mechanics still changed the oil in their vehicles at 3K despite the ligated mileages based on their experiences when they drained the pain. If you read an article today published by an environmentally group they will say a longer time frame. But have never seen them publish where they get their methodology or data from.

 

5K even with synthetic for me thank you very much. You're not running it through a centrifugal purifier from a 5,000 gallon main sump every 12 operational hours and I don't care what what type of fixed purifier (filter) you are running it though. It is not going to take care of all the environmental exposure issues that occur especially in extreme weather conditions that many of us experience. IMO and experience.

 

WARNING: The State of California has acknowledged that reading this can and will cause cancer, mental impairment, and metal retardation. 

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