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400 yard shots


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4 minutes ago, grouse28 said:


Yes this is taught at every hunter safety course I have been involved with.

We then have deer running around with their jaw shot off or missing a leg. Great fodder for the anti’s.

I am of the camp that you should be aware of the back ground of every shot, impossible to do on a running shot.

Well aware that in Maine hunter density is nil, but the fact remains is that you cannot take back a shot.

I do not need to shoot a deer that badly, if I can’t make a sure kill I will pass on it.

As to long range, yes it takes much preparation and knowing the gun and wind conditions, etc.

As to the shot, just put the crosshairs on the target, just like a carnival shooting gallery.

We had a young hunter at our perch one time, spotted a deer at 775 yards. None of us wanted the deer.

young guy who never had shot a deer asked if he could. Sure, we got the deer in the scope for him, no wind, sat him down at the bench and told him to put the crosshairs in the kill zone. Bam, one shot, DRT.  Just shooting, not hunting.


Hunt deer the way you want. As I said, I don’t recommend you head to Maine to hunt deer if you plan to do any tracking in snow. Luckily it’s not for the faint of heart, and I’m too old and lame to do it any longer. But when I did I had no issue with letting the lead fly if need be. I can look myself squarely in the mirror.

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I find there is more accomplishment with a 15 yard shot then a 400 yard every day of the year.  At 400 yards, an animal is just a living target.  

To me the "sporting" element of the hunt lies within the range of an animal's senses. There's always an acceptable distance that an aware animal could/should have recognized danger. Shooting within th

Ethics (as opposed to legality) are a personal thing. I find as I get older, that ethics have become more of a factor in the way that I hunt - indeed, in the way I live my life.    I try try

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44 minutes ago, Brad Eden said:

But when I did I had no issue with letting the lead fly if need be. I can look myself squarely in the mirror.

 Ask anyone who has been involved in a hunting accident how it is looking in a mirror.

My point is why take a chance.

Background should always a concern when shooting. 
I’ve had bullets flying past me several time by people shooting at running deer. Again PA is not Maine.

Safe practices do not change at state lines.

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20 hours ago, Brad Eden said:

These Topics always make it crystal clear to me that different states have vastly different deer populations, traditions, shot distances, habitat etc., and the way to hunt in one state isn’t the way to hunt in another. Good luck finding a 300-400 or longer shot on anything in Maine.

 

....

 

I often hear how wrong it is to shoot at a moving or running deer, or when you don’t have the perfect shot. It’s boreal forest up here and you usually only see a piece of a deer. If you insist on seeing a whole deer broadside and standing, dont bother to still hunt or especially track in the snow. Putting holes in the buck is the goal, the more the better. There is a reason successful trackers can really work a pump rifle and eyes permitting, use open sights. 

 

1 hour ago, grouse28 said:


Yes this is taught at every hunter safety course I have been involved with.

We then have deer running around with their jaw shot off or missing a leg. Great fodder for the anti’s.

I am of the camp that you should be aware of the back ground of every shot, impossible to do on a running shot.

Well aware that in Maine hunter density is nil, but the fact remains is that you cannot take back a shot.

I do not need to shoot a deer that badly, if I can’t make a sure kill I will pass on it.

As to long range, yes it takes much preparation and knowing the gun and wind conditions, etc.

As to the shot, just put the crosshairs on the target, just like a carnival shooting gallery.

We had a young hunter at our perch one time, spotted a deer at 775 yards. None of us wanted the deer.

young guy who never had shot a deer asked if he could. Sure, we got the deer in the scope for him, no wind, sat him down at the bench and told him to put the crosshairs in the kill zone. Bam, one shot, DRT.  Just shooting, not hunting.

 

1 hour ago, Brad Eden said:


Hunt deer the way you want. As I said, I don’t recommend you head to Maine to hunt deer if you plan to do any tracking in snow. Luckily it’s not for the faint of heart, and I’m too old and lame to do it any longer. But when I did I had no issue with letting the lead fly if need be. I can look myself squarely in the mirror.

 

42 minutes ago, grouse28 said:

 Ask anyone who has been involved in a hunting accident how it is looking in a mirror.

My point is why take a chance.

Background should always a concern when shooting. 
I’ve had bullets flying past me several time by people shooting at running deer. Again PA is not Maine.

Safe practices do not change at state lines.


As I’ve said before, I don’t just throw crap at the screen. I’ve learned to spend the time needed to articulate my point, and I stand by my contributions to this thread. If you don’t like it, then that’s fine. I respectfully have nothing more to say concerning this exchange. 

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To get back more on topic with the original post about long range shots: Is anyone watching “The Voice” this season?  

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Tim Frazier
18 hours ago, charlo slim said:

 

So, just out of curiosity, if I hit a deer (or grouse or......) with my vehicle , have I hunted?

So there was an adult cartoon about this.  I think "The Family Guy" maybe???  The father and son went through all this preparation to go on a hunt and ended up in a stand with a feeder below.  A buzzer went off and the feeder started throwing corn out and deer showed up in mass.  They looked at each other and neither one of them wanted to shoot.  They were very dejected and on the drive home that evening they hit a deer.  They pulled over and it was dead as a doornail.  They talked for awhile and then one of them said, "well technically we are out hunting today, and this deer was in it's habitat and not coming to a feeder...and it would be a waste to leave it"  So they put him on the roof and celebrated that they had killed a deer fairly and would take it home to eat.

 

SO...hunting is securing meat/killing but securing meat/killing is not always hunting I suppose.

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7 hours ago, grouse28 said:

We had a young hunter at our perch one time, spotted a deer at 775 yards. None of us wanted the deer.

young guy who never had shot a deer asked if he could. Sure, we got the deer in the scope for him, no wind, sat him down at the bench and told him to put the crosshairs in the kill zone. Bam, one shot, DRT.  Just shooting, not hunting.

 

I don't know if I buy this.  Is there even a caliber that shoots flat enough that, unless you had a crazy zero distance, wouldn't drop waaay out of a 9" kill zone at 775 yards without significant holdover or dialed in scope adjustment?  For example, if I zero's my .308 at 125 yards, it shoots flat enough that I wouldn't have to worry about holdover out to about 250 yards.  But beyond that the bullet would drop a total of 183 inches at 775 yards.  That's a crap load of click counting to dial the scope in.  Without adjustment, hold over would be like 10x the girth of the animal.  Or are you saying that you made all the adjustments for the kid so he could just hold dead on?  If that's the case, it doesn't really fit into the conversation.  I think we're talking about the skill, knowledge and familiarity with your equipment it takes to make a shot that long.  That average person who poo-poo's long range hunting as easy has no idea how many clicks on his scope he needs to make to dial in a 775 yard shot, and many would find it difficult to even figure it out. 

 

having a bench available changes things a bit.  When I think of long range hunting I think of field conditions and getting a steady rest that works for the shot is part of the challenge.  

 

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7 hours ago, grouse28 said:

 Ask anyone who has been involved in a hunting accident how it is looking in a mirror.

My point is why take a chance.

Background should always a concern when shooting. 
I’ve had bullets flying past me several time by people shooting at running deer. Again PA is not Maine.

Safe practices do not change at state lines.

There's always a risk when you pull the trigger.  How do you know that there's not a small opening in the woods right behind the deer your shooting at and another hunter, orange hat and all, is peeking through it looking at the same deer you are and neither of you can see each other?  You can never 100% verify what's beyond your target in a hunting situation.   But if you know the area and keep your wits about you, you can minimize the risk.  But like most things, risk is subjective.  

 

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2 hours ago, Tim Frazier said:

SO...hunting is securing meat/killing but securing meat/killing is not always hunting I suppose.

 

Yes.  There's lots of alternatives to hunting now, that's why its controversial today but wasn't 150 years ago.  

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41 minutes ago, MAArcher said:

 

I don't know if I buy this.  Is there even a caliber that shoots flat enough that, unless you had a crazy zero distance, wouldn't drop waaay out of a 9" kill zone at 775 yards without significant holdover or dialed in scope adjustment?  For example, if I zero's my .308 at 125 yards, it shoots flat enough that I wouldn't have to worry about holdover out to about 250 yards.  But beyond that the bullet would drop a total of 183 inches at 775 yards.  That's a crap load of click counting to dial the scope in.  Without adjustment, hold over would be like 10x the girth of the animal.  Or are you saying that you made all the adjustments for the kid so he could just hold dead on?  If that's the case, it doesn't really fit into the conversation.  I think we're talking about the skill, knowledge and familiarity with your equipment it takes to make a shot that long.  That average person who poo-poo's long range hunting as easy has no idea how many clicks on his scope he needs to make to dial in a 775 yard shot, and many would find it difficult to even figure it out. 

 

having a bench available changes things a bit.  When I think of long range hunting I think of field conditions and getting a steady rest that works for the shot is part of the challenge.  

 

With my gun, you hold dead on....after taking range etc and turning proper number of clicks on scope.   

I shot several deer out there a ways with my old 06 and a 3.5-10 Leopold scope that was not field adjustable.  When you can dial in, however, it makes it much easier to put lead on target.  If your data is good, then your shot will be where it is supposed to be...limited by your skill.

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Round and round we go. If I lived out west I would likely own a suitable rifle and caliber and scope and have practiced for long shots out to 400 yards, maybe more. I have little experience out West outside of visiting some National Parks but was a guest at a UJers ranch in MT for a Merriams turkey hunt some years back. Lots of open prairies overlooking river bottoms and open hillsides. You need to shoot distance out there. Where I live I don’t have the opportunity to shoot much more than 200 yards. So I think I’ll stay in my lane for now on with this Topic.

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58 minutes ago, MAArcher said:

 

I don't know if I buy this.  Is there even a caliber that shoots flat enough that, unless you had a crazy zero distance, wouldn't drop waaay out of a 9" kill zone at 775 yards without significant holdover or dialed in scope adjustment?  For example, if I zero's my .308 at 125 yards, it shoots flat enough that I wouldn't have to worry about holdover out to about 250 yards.  But beyond that the bullet would drop a total of 183 inches at 775 yards.  That's a crap load of click counting to dial the scope in.  Without adjustment, hold over would be like 10x the girth of the animal.  Or are you saying that you made all the adjustments for the kid so he could just hold dead on?  If that's the case, it doesn't really fit into the conversation.  I think we're talking about the skill, knowledge and familiarity with your equipment it takes to make a shot that long.  That average person who poo-poo's long range hunting as easy has no idea how many clicks on his scope he needs to make to dial in a 775 yard shot, and many would find it difficult to even figure it out. 

 

having a bench available changes things a bit.  When I think of long range hunting I think of field conditions and getting a steady rest that works for the shot is part of the challenge.  

 

Yes  obviously we counted clicks from a 0 position.

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Samuel Hoggson

Mebbe a good time to start a "wingshooting with the .410" thread.......(just kidding, Brad).

 

Seriously, most all here hunt - or learn to hunt - ethically within their venues.  Venues differ.  Ergo, our methods and equipment differ. 

 

As do our notions of what constitutes "sport hunting".......whatever "sport hunting" means.

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On 3/12/2020 at 6:37 AM, Samuel Hoggson said:

Mebbe a good time to start a "wingshooting with the .410" thread.......(just kidding, Brad).

 

Seriously, most all here hunt - or learn to hunt - ethically within their venues.  Venues differ.  Ergo, our methods and equipment differ. 

 

As do our notions of what constitutes "sport hunting".......whatever "sport hunting" means.

I don't think "sport hunting" is too hard to define.  It means your primary reason for hunting isn't to putting food on the table.  It may include putting food on the table, but "sport" infers that you're doing something additional.   In most cases you're doing it for some sense of nostalgia, or connection to nature, or for the challenge of accomplishing a goal under a set of rules (the same reason you'd play sports like golf or football).   

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Samuel Hoggson
1 hour ago, MAArcher said:

I don't think "sport hunting" is too hard to define.  It means your primary reason for hunting isn't to putting food on the table.  It may include putting food on the table, but "sport" infers that you're doing something additional.   In most cases you're doing it for some sense of nostalgia, or connection to nature, or for the challenge of accomplishing a goal under a set of rules (the same reason you'd play sports like golf or football).   

 

Thought provoking.  Kinda get the "sport" component of your definition.  But under that definition killing 50 rats at night would be sport hunting.  As would braining that rabid skunk behind in the yard last year.  Or those beaver we shot for trashing our ponds.  I think of such as just purposeful killing, and that food ought to be some part of "hunting".  The rats do include a major fun factor, the skunk not so much.

 

Jacking deer could be sport hunting, though, for the definition's lack of legal or ethical considerations.  Dunno.  Maybe I'm equating "sport" with "sporting"?

 

 

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As a former rat hunter, I would consider that sport hunting. They were very skittish and needed to be stalked in the barn.

We did let them lay were shot to come back an hour later and shoot others feeding off their bodies. In retrospect maybe that aspect was not sport hunting but could have been considered baiting. Fun nonetheless for blood thirsty teens.

 

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