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Putting a plow on and off a truck is a PIA. I don’t have any hydraulic snap in to place dealagig. I end up using a floor jack to get the damn thing the right height so I can drive into it and still have to jiggle the beast before I can get it to snap into place, and removing it is just as much of a commotion. That’s why it’s still sitting in my driveway and not placed behind shed like it is during summer and most of fall. Been putting it off. It would be nice to have a dedicated plow truck with the plow attached all the time. I’d start that chitbix off season and make sure all was working rather than turning the key the day of a major snowstorm.

If I did trade or sell my current truck, and if we stayed here for any length of time I’d look into a plow for any new truck. Or get a plow attachment for the tractor maybe. I only do my driveway which is pretty big, but not so large that using a plow would tax any truck too much. I’m basically on hold on any newish truck right now until my application for early SS benefits is confirmed and I see my first installment.

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Put money down on a 2020 F150 today. They came down $8,200 off msrp, and got a good trade in according to KBB. Don’t know if the time is right or not, but didn’t want to buy new tabs next month.

Wanted to update before they changed the box dimensions. Taking the topper off our current truck, and putting it on the new one. You can see the topper right behind the new truck. Boring Oxford white,

I have had 12 white ones, not boring to me. 

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10 hours ago, Alaskan Swamp Collie said:

And don't get me started on the new easy to mount and release plows, so now I only cuss for 2 hours rather than 4. Buy a beater and leave it on there.


This alone is reason enough to keep the old Tundra. Plus you might be able to plate it as a farm truck and thus skip the insurance.

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10 minutes ago, RookieEP said:

I vote tractor attachment 

Problem is I would need to take off the FEL, which is likely the overall best tool for light plowing in float mode...but more specifically lifting and moving snow as it piles up. I have all the Quick attach stuff...but much like a Truck plow going on and off...a certain amount of aggravation going from one to the other. But it’s not out of the question. 

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Alaskan Swamp Collie

My driveway is about a third of a mile where it hooks into a road I share maintenance with 3 other households for another third of a mile. Sold my 30 year old plow/truck rig last year. Was to the point of welding the welds to hold the plow together. Truck hadn't been street legal in years and not licensed in longer than that. Got a newer plow(only third owner) and hung it on my 20 year old truck. Does the job , but I did slide off pushing a big mess of wet snow and dent the passenger side. Might take the plow off one more time but that will be the last time. Leaving it on is the best way to have a good day that I can imagine.

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Brad, maybe I missed something. What’s on the back of your tractor that you don’t want to use a back blade to plow with?

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1 hour ago, GuyO said:

Brad, maybe I missed something. What’s on the back of your tractor that you don’t want to use a back blade to plow with?

I have a ballast box filled with sand bags to counterbalance the FEL. I’ve watched videos of the back blade and really don’t like them or how they move snow to be honest. But I’ve never used one. We can get a load of snow as evidenced by the 14 drop of heavy wet white toothpaste about two weeks ago. My driveway is gravel and long.  My arrangement now is about perfect if not overly so. Truck plow to rough everything in, tractor FEL to clean up and tweak and move snow when it accumulates and a big snowblower to clear walkways and paths. Although on occasion if I have time and want to take a walk, I will do almost the whole driveway with snowblower and throw the snow way off to the sides.

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I didn’t realize that’s what you used for weight. It’s not fun when it’s real cold and windy with a back blade. But it’s kinda handy on a tractor with a loader if something happens to the truck (like not being able to get it started)! That’s all we had at the golf course in Maryland, not that we got snow like you.

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Glad this is over...wait...maybe some snow Sunday night.


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Alaskan Swamp Collie
7 hours ago, Brad Eden said:


Glad this is over...wait...maybe some snow Sunday night.


What, even I can see some gravel now.

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It's time to buy as industry returns from virus shutdown

Jamie L. LaReau

Detroit Free Press USA TODAY NETWORK

If you're considering a new or used car purchase, now may be the time to get a killer deal as the auto industry creeps out of the coronavirus shutdown and ramps up in the next month or so, industry experts say.

That's the good news.

The bad news: If you have a car to trade in, you won't get as much for it. Wholesale used car values have plummeted and likely won't fully recover until later this year.

“If you have the ability to go in and buy a car without doing a trade-in - if you can keep your car for two or three more months -- I'd advise that,” said Jonathan Banks, vice president of Vehicle Valuations & Analytics at J.D. Power. “If you already own your car, it's a no-brainer, buy now.”

In mid-March, new-vehicle production came to a halt as the automakers idled U.S. assembly plants to protect workers from the coronavirus pandemic. Then, most new and used car sales sputtered to a stop in many states as shelter-in-place orders went into effect and some banned car sales for a period.

In the interim, many car dealers have stocked up on new-vehicle inventory, anticipating pent-up consumer demand. Soon, their used-car inventory will be thick, too.

Manheim Detroit Auction will start selling used cars again Thursday after a month of sales shutdown because of restrictions under Michigan's shelter in place order. The wholesale value of used cars has plunged, making them cheap for dealers to buy, though bad for consumers who want to sell them on trade-in.

Matt Trapp, of Manheim Detroit, takes part in an auction in 2018. KIRTHMON F. DOZIER/DETROIT FREE PRESS

Chevrolet cars sit on a dealer lot. AP


No fire sale yet

Banks said the end result will be a shortterm imbalance of supply versus demand. There will be more new and used cars than initial consumer demand, making it a buyer's market. But the window to get that good deal will be “pretty short” between mid-May through mid-July, he said.

“There are a bunch of vehicles that normally would have been sold by the rental companies and the captive finance companies at the auctions. That pool is growing and they're in parking lots or automakers have extended leases,” said Banks. “We think that number will be up to 800,000 vehicles by the middle of May. Those need to enter the market.”

But the volume of used vehicles that goes through the used car auction plunged since last month, bringing wholesale used vehicle prices tumbling down. The prices decreased about 12% in comparing the first 15 days of April to the month of March, according to the Manheim Market Report.

“We're seeing a huge drop-off in demand. It is starting to rebound as dealers are opening back up to a degree,” said Matt Trapp, Manheim's regional vice president. “We saw demand drop to 20% to 25% prior to what it was prior to the shelter in place mandates. It's starting to rebound a bit.”

Despite the drop in wholesale prices, don't look for dealers to offer a fire sale on used cars just yet. J.D. Power data show retail used prices are down only 2% compared with what they were before coronavirus escalated, said Banks.

Jonathan Smoke, Cox Automotive's chief economist, agrees the stability in used-car retail prices indicates that dealers view the market downturn as temporary.

“Traditionally, retail prices fall when wholesale prices fall, but we're not seeing that in the data right now. Retail prices for used cars are mostly stable in the market,” said Smoke. “The fact retail prices have been stable shows dealers have not yet had to lower prices to sell the vehicles they're selling.”

Used car auctions

Manheim Detroit Auction in Carleton, about 40 miles southwest of Detroit, is one of 139 Manheim used car auction sites in North America.

It's open only to car dealers - the public cannot participate. Most of the used cars that are sold there are three to six years old. About a quarter of them come from dealers who took them in on a trade. The rest come from bank repossessions, off-lease vehicles or rental car or other fleets. It does about $2 billion in used car transactions a year.

On March 16, Manheim decided to close down the live auction lanes and do simulcastonly sales at all its locations, thereby sidelining the chaotic flow of cars and closing the doors to the hundreds of bidders that pass through the lanes, Trapp said.

The auctioneers still came in, stood on the auction blocks to call out the bids via simulcast as car dealers across the country viewed the used cars and read the condition reports on their computers, remotely making purchase offers. In some locations, a fraction of employees came in help move and secure inventory, inspect used cars and do some reconditioning work on the vehicles, said Trapp.

Manheim Detroit ceased all operations on March 23 when Michigan's shelter-in-place order went into effect, Trapp said. Only about 10 of its 400 personnel came to the facility, mostly to secure the cars.

On Thursday, Manheim Detroit reopened with digital sales again, Trapp said. He cites the federal CISA 3.0 revision that designates the automobile sales industry “as critical infrastructure, and many states officially adopted CISA as the framework for designating businesses as essential.”

The sale of used cars in auctions has been important for car dealers to maintain cash liquidity even if wholesale prices are depressed, Trapp said.

“Dealers are still bringing cars to the auctions because they need the cash,” Trapp said. “Every car they sell allows them to keep their business going and keep their employees employed.”

But there remains a glut of used car inventory that needs to sell and land on dealer lots, Trapp said.

“Our inventory levels have grown and our lots are more full than they've ever been,” Trapp said. “We'll be in some form of a digitalonly world for a while ... to figure out how to thin inventory and keep sales flowing.”

Make way for new models

Used wholesale prices are expected to improve as the markets become less restrictive in May and June, J.D. Power forecasts.

J.D. Power expects wholesale prices to bottom out in June falling to 8% and 11% from previrus levels. Then used prices should improve through the remainder of the year with prices back to pre-virus levels toward late 2020 or early 2021, making trade-ins a better deal for consumers.

In the new car market, things look promising, too. Typically, March, April and May are strong months for new vehicle sales. The pandemic likely deferred that trend, but didn't kill it, some say.

“It's also a time when the vehicle manufacturers are starting to get rid of the old models because they have new model years coming in,” said Martin French, U.S. managing director of Berylls Strategy Advisors, a small automotive consultancy in Royal Oak.

For example, General Motors has the 2021 redesigned Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon full-size SUVs due to go on sale this summer and Cadillac Escalade expected in the third quarter. Ford Motor Co. has the redesigned 2021 F-150 pickup coming by year-end and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has the redesigned 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV due out later this year.

“So there's a lot of anticipated brands and vehicles that are popular and the cash cows for GM, Ford and FCA,” French said. “They'll get pushed back a little bit. So what you'll see is a lot of stock at dealerships and their liquidity will be lower, so they'll need to sell inventory.”

Messed up market

Recent data shows retail car sales are starting to stabilize, even show signs of recovery.

For the week ending April 19, retail sales were down 48% from the pre-virus forecast, an improvement of 3 percentage points from the week ending April 12, said Tyson Jominy, vice president of data and analytics at J.D. Power. But about 301,000 new vehicles were sold month-to-date through April 19, a decline of 51% compared with the pre-virus forecast.

For consumers, there are deals to be had. Many carmakers are enticing buyers with attractive discounts. The Detroit Three, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Volkswagen, Audi, Volvo and Jaguar Land Rover all have 0% finance offers with extended terms of 72 months or longer, Jominy said in a report. Jeep is offering employee pricing on some models and many brands have a three-to-six months deferred payment for new buyers.

Besides super financing deals, there is another reason this is shaping up to be a good time to buy a new car: GM, Ford and FCA have all tapped into their lines of credit to get through the coronavirus crisis.

“All the major companies, they've all drawn down on revolving credit lines and so liquidity will be an issue and the car companies will want to ramp up production and get their new vehicles in the marketplace,” French said. “It's going to be a really interesting time.”

If history is any indicator, Banks said, used cars might outsell new cars initially coming out of the coronavirus shutdown.

“But the one difference this time is, usually when this happens it's an economic problem, like an economic shock, so there is some argument that used won't be as attractive as it was in prior recessions,” Banks said.

But there will be a lot of used vehicles for sale and more coming as about a million vehicles, three years old or newer, are due to come off lease, French said.

Many of those could end up in the used car showroom, “at affordable prices,” Banks added.

“And, there'll be many people who will be less confident in their earnings, too” and prefer a used car rather than a new car, Banks said.

But, he admits, it's hard to beat free money on some of the 0% interest deals for new cars.

“If you're a consumer who needs to replace a car your position is awesome. I'm thinking of buying one,” Banks said. “But you've got to wait a few weeks though. Right now, the market is still so messed up that it's not even acting normal.”

Contact Jamie L. LaReau: 313-222-2149 or jlareau@freepress.com. Follow her on Twitter @ jlareauan. Read more on General Motors and sign up for our autos newsletter.

Auctioneers sit on the auction block during a live digital sale at Manheim North Carolina. KEVIN COOK/MANHEIM NORTH CAROLINA

Copyright (c)2020 Detroit Free Press, Edition 4/29/2020


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On 4/24/2020 at 6:57 PM, BBlizzard18 said:

I spent the day trying to trade in my Sierra.  Started with asking about the 0% 84 month deal that's being advertised.  With that "deal" you don't qualify for the $6,500 supplier discount, or the $2,000 healthcare worker discount, which they'll just call a dealer discount if someone isn't a healthcare worker.  So, salesman said based on my FICO score I qualified for 2.9% with the $8,500 in "deals" "rebates", which is a better deal.  OK.  Settled on a price.  The salesman recommended a local place that does caps and liners thinking I might as well roll that into the truck loan. Then a finance manager calls to chat, nobody I had dealt with yet.  He says the system was acting funny and those rates didn't apply to my situation and the rebates I was going to get.  Interest rate was actually going to be 4.3%, shot the payment up a bit.  I only could get the 2.9% with a 48 month loan.  Back and forth for a bit.  Everything just seemed unorganized and chaotic.  I got sick of dealing with it and went outside with the dog.


That’s their plan. Keep all the balls in the air and keep adding stuff to their advantage, and subtract things that benefit you. I like to do as much of the process as i can on line. Comparison shop, finance shop, set a price, etc... but even then i know i will need a few hours to wade through the bull at the dealership. They extend a 20 minute process trying to pack in anything they can on finance, warranty, etc.... in the end i know ill get what i want, or just say no. Most times it works out. A couple times ive walked away. I’m ok with either. 

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29 minutes ago, Tilkut said:


That’s their plan. Keep all the balls in the air and keep adding stuff to their advantage, and subtract things that benefit you. I like to do as much of the process as i can on line. Comparison shop, finance shop, set a price, etc... but even then i know i will need a few hours to wade through the bull at the dealership. They extend a 20 minute process trying to pack in anything they can on finance, warranty, etc.... in the end i know ill get what i want, or just say no. Most times it works out. A couple times ive walked away. I’m ok with either. 

Yeah, I ended up walking.  If they come back with what I want I'll talk again.  Trade value was $3-5k below KBB and NADA, and they wouldn't budge.  I'll wait.  The willingness to walk has always served me well.  

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Brad Eden



Another one showed up...Lease off trade in...2018 with 35k mikes...has my eye twitching...Light negotiations with Salesman...not a fan of the graphics on rear quarter panels...not sure if thats factory or aftermarket. It’s not the off-road TRD package. I’m 62 not 30...I wonder if that crap could be removed?

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1 minute ago, Brad Eden said:



 I’m 62 not 30...I wonder if that crap could be removed?

Absolutely !

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