Jump to content

Rattlesnake Vaccine Abscess


Recommended Posts

Greg Hartman
15 hours ago, Remo said:

Greg, the infection was from the injection rather than the vaccine, right? I was considering the RR for my dogs if I ever get west.

 

I honestly don't know.  Have had the RR vaccine for many years on various dogs - never had a problem before.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Greg Hartman

    9

  • 406dn

    8

  • Don Steese

    5

  • Dogwood

    5

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Most Brittanys can keep up with Setters. Their problem is mostly an inferiority complex over the lack of a tail and allow Setters to dominate the field. Some Brittanys can be restored to full confiden

Sunday night, Nancy was holding Bliss and noticed what she thought might be a lump on Bliss's right hip.  But, Bliss is very muscular and bony, so she figured it might just be that.  Monday morning, w

I am conflicted as I respond to this with a Setter and a French Brit watching closely.  They read text and lip read in addition to finding birds, dead and alive.   Perk

Posted Images

Greg Hartman
On 8/20/2020 at 3:29 PM, grouse28 said:

Most Brittanys can keep up with Setters. Their problem is mostly an inferiority complex over the lack of a tail and allow Setters to dominate the field. Some Brittanys can be restored to full confidence with the use of a Big Dog Strap on Tail, available on Amazon.

 

This sounds like someone who has extensive experience with Big Dog brand strap-on "appliances".  I am happy to say that I have no such experience; nor do my dogs.   😁

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Greg Hartman said:

 

This sounds like someone who has extensive experience with Big Dog brand strap-on "appliances".  I am happy to say that I have no such experience; nor do my dogs.   😁

 

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.... Who keeps inviting him back every autumn to spend weeks at a time, alone on the prairies, in his motor home?😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Greg Hartman said:

 

I honestly don't know.  Have had the RR vaccine for many years on various dogs - never had a problem before.

 

It's the vaccine that triggers the abscess not the needle.  Non-viral vaccinations of all sorts are more notorious for causing reactions/abscesses.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2020 at 2:45 PM, Chukarman said:

 

I seem to remember a little setter blood creeping into Allen's Brits. Some accidental Settainies a few years ago. Might have helped make them faster? 😎

 

 

The Settany (Charlie) just had a toe lopped off yesterday due to cancerous type small tumor. (3 bones removed).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg Hartman
8 hours ago, Marc Ret said:

 

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.... Who keeps inviting him back every autumn to spend weeks at a time, alone on the prairies, in his motor home?😉

 

I have Nancy to protect me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg Hartman
2 hours ago, fourtrax57 said:

 

 

The Settany (Charlie) just had a toe lopped off yesterday due to cancerous type small tumor. (3 bones removed).

 

Awww.  I hope we'll see Charlie in a week or three.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg Hartman
4 hours ago, Dogwood said:

 

It's the vaccine that triggers the abscess not the needle.  Non-viral vaccinations of all sorts are more notorious for causing reactions/abscesses.

 

Interesting.  Thanks, Jeff!

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dogwood said:

 

It's the vaccine that triggers the abscess not the needle.  Non-viral vaccinations of all sorts are more notorious for causing reactions/abscesses.

 

Interesting.

 

I know that when giving horses shots, part of the deal is to give it in an area that if it abcesses it can blow out and drain externally. From Greg's photo, it looks like the vaccine was given higher in the ham than the few times I've seen a vet use a hind leg for a vaccine shot. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/20/2020 at 3:29 PM, grouse28 said:

Most Brittanys can keep up with Setters. Their problem is mostly an inferiority complex over the lack of a tail and allow Setters to dominate the field. Some Brittanys can be restored to full confidence with the use of a Big Dog Strap on Tail, available on Amazon.

 While not either a fancier nor a defender of either Setters or Brittany's I must say  this is really a dumb  post and adds nothing to what started as an informative  discussion - you must have been a real wit in a Junior High locker room. .

 

Ruger 1

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dogwood said:

 

It's the vaccine that triggers the abscess not the needle.  Non-viral vaccinations of all sorts are more notorious for causing reactions/abscesses.

Seems I recall reading a few years ago that this was a potential issue.  I was resistant to having mine Red Rocked, but finally succumbed.  I'd hate to not have and had my dogs killed by snakes thinking it might have made a difference.  Gil

Link to post
Share on other sites

Earlier, Dogwood stated he did not recommend the Red Rock snake vaccine.

 

Here is a link that basically says the same thing.

https://www.embracepetinsurance.com/waterbowl/article/rattlesnake-vaccine

 

After reading that, I'm even more convinced it is not money well spent. IMO, they are taking advantage of the nearly universal human fear of snakes.

 

Montana is not the snakiest place it the world but they aren't difficult to find if you really want to find one. Snakes are not close to the top of the bad things most likely to bring grief to a dog or hunter. Busy roads kill more hunting dogs than snakes ever will. I have often seen guys hunting their dogs in places I'd never hunt a dog. Hunting your dog in temperatures of say 75 or above without sufficient water kills more dogs than snakes, I suspect. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 406dn said:

Earlier, Dogwood stated he did not recommend the Red Rock snake vaccine.

 

Here is a link that basically says the same thing.

https://www.embracepetinsurance.com/waterbowl/article/rattlesnake-vaccine

 

After reading that, I'm even more convinced it is not money well spent. IMO, they are taking advantage of the nearly universal human fear of snakes.

 

Montana is not the snakiest place it the world but they aren't difficult to find if you really want to find one. Snakes are not close to the top of the bad things most likely to bring grief to a dog or hunter. Busy roads kill more hunting dogs than snakes ever will. I have often seen guys hunting their dogs in places I'd never hunt a dog. Hunting your dog in temperatures of say 75 or above without sufficient water kills more dogs than snakes, I suspect. 

 

 

Dave - i do not disagree that heat kills more dogs than snakes... just takes longer sometimes.

 

I disagree that the RR vaccine is a waste of money. There are many veterinary 'sources' that descry the vaccine as unproven. They are unwilling to accept any 'anecdotal' evidence. And RR Labs has not undertaken a controlled controlled test wherein they gather 100 or more dogs and give 1/2 of them the vaccine and then inject diamondback venom into all the dogs and count the ones in the control group that die vs. the ones that receive the vaccine. I do know that vets and dog owners that live in snakey areas believe that it lowers the risk of death and serious tissue loss in dogs that suffer bites by rattlesnakes. this does not mean that vets reading their associations' recommendations are wrong... they are simply misinformed by organizations that are influenced by concerns that are not entirely 'medical'. I have reasons based on personal experience for

saying this and I stand by my words.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Chukarman said:

Dave - i do not disagree that heat kills more dogs than snakes... just takes longer sometimes.

 

I disagree that the RR vaccine is a waste of money. There are many veterinary 'sources' that descry the vaccine as unproven. They are unwilling to accept any 'anecdotal' evidence. And RR Labs has not undertaken a controlled controlled test wherein they gather 100 or more dogs and give 1/2 of them the vaccine and then inject diamondback venom into all the dogs and count the ones in the control group that die vs. the ones that receive the vaccine. I do know that vets and dog owners that live in snakey areas believe that it lowers the risk of death and serious tissue loss in dogs that suffer bites by rattlesnakes. this does not mean that vets reading their associations' recommendations are wrong... they are simply misinformed by organizations that are influenced by concerns that are not entirely 'medical'. I have reasons based on personal experience for

saying this and I stand by my words.

 

Mike, If I lived where Diamondbacks where prevalent,, I might consider using the vaccine. 

 

Think about years where a flu vaccine is not considered as effective as desired because the virus is a bit different than what the vaccine was designed to immunize against. The other venomous snakes have venom far different than the venom from a Diamondback snake. 

 

And why would they not offer some proof that it increases a dog's chance of surviving the venom from a Diamondback snake? If they can't do that,,, why should that give much confidence that it would offer protection from a different snake with different venom? All RR offers is their claim that it reduces the severity of the venom reaction.  

 

 They tell you that you still need to get to a vet as quickly as possible. When I vaccinate a horse against west nile,,, I never even know when they have been exposed later,,,, because they don't get visibly ill. 

 

One of the "anecdotal" data points, we now all have, is that a dog might well get a nasty abscess from the shot that requires a surgery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Chukarman said:

 

 

I disagree that the RR vaccine is a waste of money. There are many veterinary 'sources' that descry the vaccine as unproven. They are unwilling to accept any 'anecdotal' evidence. And RR Labs has not undertaken a controlled controlled test wherein they gather 100 or more dogs and give 1/2 of them the vaccine and then inject diamondback venom into all the dogs and count the ones in the control group that die vs. the ones that receive the vaccine. I do know that vets and dog owners that live in snakey areas believe that it lowers the risk of death and serious tissue loss in dogs that suffer bites by rattlesnakes. this does not mean that vets reading their associations' recommendations are wrong... they are simply misinformed by organizations that are influenced by concerns that are not entirely 'medical'. I have reasons based on personal experience for

saying this and I stand by my words.

 

Quite the contrary Mike.  The vast majority of veterinary medical decision making is based upon anecdotal evidence, hence the so-called "art of veterinary practice".Most veterinarians disapprove of the vaccine based upon anecdotal information from either personal experience or shared with colleagues, in the internet age world-wide via The Veterinary Information Network (VIN), a professional forum chock full of every clinical discussion topic imaginable.  60 bucks a month and worth every penny.  Having said that, it's nice when some hard science backs up the anecdote.  Chew on this:

 

https://www.dovepress.com/effects-of-the-canine-rattlesnake-vaccine-in-moderate-to-severe-cases--peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR.   If one cares to skip the gobletygook then just read the abstract.

 

And I understand why one's personal experience leads one to stand by their words with regards to such discussions.  It's called "confirmation bias" I believe.  Man there's no shortage of that going around these days.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...