Place board and whoa

[Bill1944]

Anyone tried this at puppy age

if so results?

impressed with place training 

would like to use it with a pointing breed

[Hal Standish]

 

 

 

Yes sir. Place board training is a fine way to teach and reinforce the Whoa command. Understand what PB training does.. It gives the dog a target if you will of a particular place that is pleasurable and safe. A dog learns from interactions it has with its environment.  Either Classical conditioning or Operant Conditioning techniques can be used in conjunction with Place training.

As for results, for me it is fail safe method of teaching any behavior that I wish to install in me dogs that are useful in the field. For me those are Control, Retrieve, and Manners.

 

Hal

[WMassGriff]

Bird Dogs Afield web site has a great video series on its use with pointing dogs. I train with Mike and it works!

[Rick Hall]

Lord knows we're an apparatus-happy species, but a place board would be a crutch Pup will eventually need weaned from.  Lot simpler to teach whoa before diving into meals, going out doors, being recalled and loved up, etc from the get-go, and not have Pup looking for an associated place board..

[Hal Standish]

Place board weaning is like "Now you see it now you don't"! It is effortlessly easy to do!

 

Hal

[Rick Hall]

1 hour ago, Hal Standish said:

Place board weaning is like "Now you see it now you don't"! It is effortlessly easy to do!

 

Hal

 

Sounds like Bill may find out if that's so, but an awful lot of guys who conditioned sit at heel have found their dogs wanting to come in and do just that, rather than sit remotely...

[Ray Gubernat]

I see no reason why you should not use a place board, but  I think it should be one of "several" places where a dog learns to stop and stand.  

 

I think it is important to take a pup's feet away from them by putting them on an elevated platform and making them stand calmly and quietly. by stroking them up and styling them up while they are elevated.   I don't think it makes a difference if that elevated platform is a barrel, a bench, a log,  a tailgate, a step or an upside down tote bin. 

 

As far as puppy   work on whoa is concerned, I start heel/whoa drills with puppies at a VERY early age.  My current puppy is 12 weeks old  and has been introduced to heel/ whoa drills for about a week now.   I typically do heel/whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long with puppies that are 16 weeks old and continue with the drills.  I use a piggin string, which is a cheap version of the Smith Wonder lead.  Both the pigging string and the wonder lead are made of rope that is waxed, which gives the rope a "springiness".  Having a dog at heel with such a lead, allows the dog to control its own fate. if it walks quietly by my knee, there is no pressure at all.  If the pup surges ahead, lags behind goes left or right, the loop tightens and pressure is applied.  The instant the pup  returns to the correct position, the loop opens and the pressure is gone.  

 

The heel/whoa drills are typically a only a couple  of minutes in duration, ten steps and stop, ten steps and stop, about four or five reps.    I try to do them a couple times a day.  

 

RayG

 

I do both the heel/whoa drills and styling the dog up on elevated surfaces. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hal Standish]

1 hour ago, Ray Gubernat said:

I see no reason why you should not use a place board, but  I think it should be one of "several" places where a dog learns to stop and stand.  

 

I think it is important to take a pup's feet away from them by putting them on an elevated platform and making them stand calmly and quietly. by stroking them up and styling them up while they are elevated.   I don't think it makes a difference if that elevated platform is a barrel, a bench, a log,  a tailgate, a step or an upside down tote bin. 

 

As far as puppy   work on whoa is concerned, I start heel/whoa drills with puppies at a VERY early age.  My current puppy is 12 weeks old  and has been introduced to heel/ whoa drills for about a week now.   I typically do heel/whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long with puppies that are 16 weeks old and continue with the drills.  I use a piggin string, which is a cheap version of the Smith Wonder lead.  Both the pigging string and the wonder lead are made of rope that is waxed, which gives the rope a "springiness".  Having a dog at heel with such a lead, allows the dog to control its own fate. if it walks quietly by my knee, there is no pressure at all.  If the pup surges ahead, lags behind goes left or right, the loop tightens and pressure is applied.  The instant the pup  returns to the correct position, the loop opens and the pressure is gone.  

 

The heel/whoa drills are typically a only a couple  of minutes in duration, ten steps and stop, ten steps and stop, about four or five reps.    I try to do them a couple times a day.  

 

RayG

 

I do both the heel/whoa drills and styling the dog up on elevated surfaces. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent best of fortunes with your Pup. Probable should let Bill 1944 chime in and give us some idea what he is hoping to accomplish with his early training. I would be amazed if he looking for a a remote sit  at this stage  of the game.

Elevated platforms have been used for an awful long time by the Pointing dog community and dog trainers in general.

 

Hal

 

[Korthaar]

I'm a fan too. One of our sponsors sells a nice board of which I have two. Kato boards.  

[Rick Hall]

13 hours ago, Hal Standish said:

I would be amazed if he looking for a a remote sit  at this stage  of the game.

 

 I would be, too, but from a practical training standpoint "sit" is no different than "whoa": you'll want Pup to stay put remotely sooner or later, and sooner is easier than later, after a counterproductive habit has been established. 

[Ray Gubernat]

2 hours ago, Rick Hall said:

 I would be, too, but from a practical training standpoint "sit" is no different than "whoa": you'll want Pup to stay put remotely sooner or later, and sooner is easier than later, after a counterproductive habit has been established. 

 

I tend to agree with this.   That is why I vary the places and situations where I ask the pup to stop and stand, at first, and especially on elevated platforms.  Once the pup is styled up and comfortable standing on the platform, I start  backing away and moving around the dog.  When doing the heel/whoa drills on the ground,  I will start dropping the lead in front of the dog to sort of anchor it  and use a hand signal to encourage it to remain in place and step away, step away and eventually walk around in front and behind the dog, simulating a flush.  In both situations, I will gradually increase the distance I go from the dog that is "on point".  If the dog moves on the ground, I will go to it, reset and stroke up and settle the dog in place.  If the dog moves on the unstable elevated platform I use...it will fall off...so they learn very quickly to stand quite still.  

 

I do the drills and progress until I can do the ground heel/whoa drill completely off lead and the elevated stand until I can throw a pigeon across the front of the dog without any movement.  

 

I do both drills, at some level...all the dog's life.  I kinda make the heel/whoa drill into a game of "gotcha" by changing direction unpredictably, stopping suddenly and even backing up, which really messes with their minds.  The dogs seem to rise to the challenge and enjoy it.  It really gets them to pay attention to my movements. 

 

A quick story as an illustration:

 

We just lost my oldest dog this year. He was originally my dog but was given to my son as a hunting dog.    He was almost 15 and very arthritic, with a very bad front shoulder and walked with a pronounced limp.  He was undoubtedly the toughest, most driven dog I have ever known.   He absolutely did not know the meaning of the word "quit".    Early this summer, about a month or so before he passed,  the family was visiting, I called him over to the bench and asked him if he wanted to "do".  He put his paw up on the bench and looked up at me.  I lifted him up, set him in place and stroked him up.  The old SOB got in the "zone" and stood there, proud as punch. His tail wouldn't go too far north any more(used to be 12 o'clock) , but he was solid as a rock  and he had "that look" in his eye.  Made me feel good to see him "git 'er done", one last time.

 

RayG

 

 

 

 

[SpringerDude]

I am using placeboards to work with a Setter pup.   We are moving along nicely.   He will stay steady on the board until sent for a retrieve.   come back to the board to deliver.  Still a puppy so plays around some instead of coming straight back.  Ok with me for now.     

 

Off the board, he can be running and slams to a stop when I throw the bumper.   Weaning off the board was no issue.   

9 months old.   not putting a lot of pressure but he does need some to get his attention at times.   Well... he is a puppy ....    

[SpringerDude]

The comment to "have to wean a dog off the board" is valid.  But of course we wean dogs off every tool we use in training.   If you make it easy for the pup to understand the desired reaction, then be consistent and the pup will respond consistently.   Pup eventually doesn't need the board, the leash, the check cord, the ecollar stimulation, the food bowl to wait on, etc.... 

[Hal Standish]

8 hours ago, SpringerDude said:

I am using placeboards to work with a Setter pup.   We are moving along nicely.   He will stay steady on the board until sent for a retrieve.   come back to the board to deliver.  Still a puppy so plays around some instead of coming straight back.  Ok with me for now.     

 

Off the board, he can be running and slams to a stop when I throw the bumper.   Weaning off the board was no issue.   

9 months old.   not putting a lot of pressure but he does need some to get his attention at times.   Well... he is a puppy ....    

 

8 hours ago, SpringerDude said:

The comment to "have to wean a dog off the board" is valid.  But of course we wean dogs off every tool we use in training.   If you make it easy for the pup to understand the desired reaction, then be consistent and the pup will respond consistently.   Pup eventually doesn't need the board, the leash, the check cord, the ecollar stimulation, the food bowl to wait on, etc.... 

 

Vrey goood! As I had mentioned in a earlier post on this thread weaning off the boards is "easy peasy"! Nice report SD!

 

Hal

[Rick Hall]

11 minutes ago, Hal Standish said:

weaning off the boards is "easy peasy"! Nice report SD!

 

Not remotely as easy as not using it at all.  (Suggests a guy whose only remaining training paraphernalia are a short slip lead, whistle, bumpers and birds.)