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Good evening. I'm new here. So I'm a long time hunter without a dog currently. I'm looking for a pointing lab and I think I've found who I want a pup from, Red Label Labs out of south Dakota. Does anyone have any experience with them? Also I plan on getting Julie Knutson book about training pointing labs but is there any other books you'd recommend? I trained my last dog myself and he was a great dog but I would like to be able to maybe trial my new dog one day. I mainly hunt pheasant and quail in some nasty cover but I occasionally hunt waterfowl. 

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shoot-straight

My last dog shadow was a pointing lab from tiger mountain in Washington. John Greer has been arguably been breeding them longer than anyone. Other than allergies, shadow was a perfect hunting dog and companion. The breeding that produced him produced a dog who is prominent in many pointing dog pedigrees. 
 

I have a Young pudlepointer now, but I researched Sauk river labs as well and talked to David mork the breeder. He seemed like a nice guy.

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8 hours ago, Dohyde34 said:

Good evening. I'm new here. So I'm a long time hunter without a dog currently. I'm looking for a pointing lab and I think I've found who I want a pup from, Red Label Labs out of south Dakota. Does anyone have any experience with them? Also I plan on getting Julie Knutson book about training pointing labs but is there any other books you'd recommend? I trained my last dog myself and he was a great dog but I would like to be able to maybe trial my new dog one day. I mainly hunt pheasant and quail in some nasty cover but I occasionally hunt waterfowl. 

 Cannot offer any Info on The Red label Dogs, But I am curious as what Trialing venues are available to the PL?

Best of Luck 

 

Hal

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7 hours ago, Hal Standish said:

 Cannot offer any Info on The Red label Dogs, But I am curious as what Trialing venues are available to the PL?

Best of Luck 

 

Hal

Pointing Labs compete in hunt tests such as the HRC AKC and APLA (American Pointing Labrador Association)

 

 

Red Labels Rudy did very well in 2019. He finished his 4 x GMPR title and passed 5 AKC Master tests this summer. He needs one more Master pass for his MH title.
 

All done! Red Label Kennel’s Consuming Fire Jack 4X GMPR. Jack had a great finish. He titled both days in South Dakota in the spring. He titled both days in Cheyenne, Wy and both days in Divide, Co this fall to run off 6 straight tests. Very proud of this Rock pup!

 

https://redlabelkennels.com/

 

 

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17 hours ago, Dohyde34 said:

 I would like to be able to maybe trial my new dog one day. I mainly hunt pheasant and quail in some nasty cover but I occasionally hunt waterfowl. 

 

1 hour ago, bigjohnsd said:

Pointing Labs compete in hunt tests such as the HRC AKC and APLA (American Pointing Labrador Association)

 

 

Red Labels Rudy did very well in 2019. He finished his 4 x GMPR title and passed 5 AKC Master tests this summer. He needs one more Master pass for his MH title.
 

All done! Red Label Kennel’s Consuming Fire Jack 4X GMPR. Jack had a great finish. He titled both days in South Dakota in the spring. He titled both days in Cheyenne, Wy and both days in Divide, Co this fall to run off 6 straight tests. Very proud of this Rock pup!

 

https://redlabelkennels.com/

 

 

Thanks! So in reality the OP was not taliking about Trialing. He was talking about testing. if the wording had been " I would like to be able to maybe (trial) to Test my new dog one day" I would not have replied to the thread.. Big difference in Trialing and Testing. HRC and AKC Retriever testing have very little to do with Upland abilities.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Hal

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6 hours ago, Hal Standish said:

 

Thanks! So in reality the OP was not taliking about Trialing. He was talking about testing. if the wording had been " I would like to be able to maybe (trial) to Test my new dog one day" I would not have replied to the thread.. Big difference in Trialing and Testing. HRC and AKC Retriever testing have very little to do with Upland abilities.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Hal

GENERAL RULES FOR ALL APLA TESTS:

§  All dogs at all levels in the APLA are being judged in the upland field for the traits of naturally occurring, intense points.

§  The dog must clearly establish a natural point on its own prior to any type of command, signal, or cue given by the Handler.  This includes not commanding, signaling, or otherwise cueing a dog once the dog has entered the scent cone and has started working its way to the bird.

§  Nowhere in any of the APLA rules does the word Average appear.

§  In keeping with the aim of simulated hunting conditions and situations, Handlers, Judges, workers and other test participants shall be attired in dark or customary hunting attire that is appropriate for the hunting scenario.

§  In the upland field, for safety reasons, blaze orange must be worn by Handlers, Judges, Gunners, and anyone else accompanying the party in the field.

§  Judges are responsible for how bird planting is to be done. The Judges will give the bird planters specific planting instructions as required by the cover, wind, time of days, moisture, etc. to evaluate the dog’s search, nose, and natural pointing traits. Birds are to be planted in the available natural cover without the use of any type of restraint. This includes not putting a bird to sleep or tucking their heads under the wing.

§  All ducks used for the test must be freshly killed and never have been used for any other reason prior to the test.  No artificial fillers or floatants may be applied to the ducks.  In the event that live ducks cannot be freshly killed immediately before the test, the HT Chair may ask the APLA HT Committee for special permission to kill and freeze the ducks in advance.

§  All tests will be conducted in series with call backs. Dogs that are not successful in one series will not be allowed to continue to the next series.

§  No collar or leads are allowed while dogs are preforming in any series. A lead may be used around the dog’s neck in CPR to steady for a mark when doing a retrieve. The lead must be out of sight when the CPR dog returns from the retrieve to deliver the bird. A lead may also be use at the CPR level in the upland field to get the young dog under control for a simulated retrieve, not while producing the bird while dog is on point.

§  No training aids (e.g., treats, e-collars, leads, leashes, heeling sticks, etc.) are permitted while dogs are performing in any series, unless explicitly stated in the rules.

§  You may not touch your dog during the test (except to water them or check for injury; Judges should be notified ahead of time.)  A light tap or touch on top of the head may be used to release your dog in the upland field. 

§  The test’s series may be run in any order unless otherwise specified in the Rules.

§  For all marked retrieves, Gunners and bird throwers will be concealed behind a duck blind or other suitable cover. No dog will be required to do a blind retrieve before picking up all marks that have been thrown.

§  No “remote sends” are allowed. Although on a marked retrieve, Judges may require the dog to sit a short distance from the Handler’s side while the marks are thrown, the Handler may come to the dog’s side to send the dog. The “remote sits” are allowed only at the master level. A dog can fail the remote sit if it breaks before being released by Judges. A dog that fails to remain at the remote sit, but doesn’t break is not automatically failed, but is marked down in cooperation.

§  No “walk-ups” are allowed at the Certification or Advanced level. (For marked or blind retrieves at these levels, the Handler must be permitted to bring the dog to the line and sit it before any duck call or shot is heard or a bird is thrown.) At the discretion of the Judges, “walk-ups” may be required at the Master level.

§  Decisions of the Judges are final.

§  Judges will be available after the test to discuss individual dog’s scoring and to answer any questions or concerns about the tests. During the test any questions or concerns should be addressed to the designated Marshal, not directly to the Judges. After the test has concluded and passing dogs have been announced, Handlers can ask the Judges questions about their specific dog’s performance. This must be done in a respectful and sportsmanlike manner.

§  Definition of a Re-send: A re-send is the result of confusion at the line. Once the dog makes an attempt to retrieve or a hunt starts it is no longer a re-send.

§  Definition of a Controlled Break: A controlled break is defined as the dog showing intent to retrieve before being released by 

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33 minutes ago, bigjohnsd said:

GENERAL RULES FOR ALL APLA TESTS:

§  All dogs at all levels in the APLA are being judged in the upland field for the traits of naturally occurring, intense points.

§  The dog must clearly establish a natural point on its own prior to any type of command, signal, or cue given by the Handler.  This includes not commanding, signaling, or otherwise cueing a dog once the dog has entered the scent cone and has started working its way to the bird.

§  Nowhere in any of the APLA rules does the word Average appear.

§  In keeping with the aim of simulated hunting conditions and situations, Handlers, Judges, workers and other test participants shall be attired in dark or customary hunting attire that is appropriate for the hunting scenario.

§  In the upland field, for safety reasons, blaze orange must be worn by Handlers, Judges, Gunners, and anyone else accompanying the party in the field.

§  Judges are responsible for how bird planting is to be done. The Judges will give the bird planters specific planting instructions as required by the cover, wind, time of days, moisture, etc. to evaluate the dog’s search, nose, and natural pointing traits. Birds are to be planted in the available natural cover without the use of any type of restraint. This includes not putting a bird to sleep or tucking their heads under the wing.

§  All ducks used for the test must be freshly killed and never have been used for any other reason prior to the test.  No artificial fillers or floatants may be applied to the ducks.  In the event that live ducks cannot be freshly killed immediately before the test, the HT Chair may ask the APLA HT Committee for special permission to kill and freeze the ducks in advance.

§  All tests will be conducted in series with call backs. Dogs that are not successful in one series will not be allowed to continue to the next series.

§  No collar or leads are allowed while dogs are preforming in any series. A lead may be used around the dog’s neck in CPR to steady for a mark when doing a retrieve. The lead must be out of sight when the CPR dog returns from the retrieve to deliver the bird. A lead may also be use at the CPR level in the upland field to get the young dog under control for a simulated retrieve, not while producing the bird while dog is on point.

§  No training aids (e.g., treats, e-collars, leads, leashes, heeling sticks, etc.) are permitted while dogs are performing in any series, unless explicitly stated in the rules.

§  You may not touch your dog during the test (except to water them or check for injury; Judges should be notified ahead of time.)  A light tap or touch on top of the head may be used to release your dog in the upland field. 

§  The test’s series may be run in any order unless otherwise specified in the Rules.

§  For all marked retrieves, Gunners and bird throwers will be concealed behind a duck blind or other suitable cover. No dog will be required to do a blind retrieve before picking up all marks that have been thrown.

§  No “remote sends” are allowed. Although on a marked retrieve, Judges may require the dog to sit a short distance from the Handler’s side while the marks are thrown, the Handler may come to the dog’s side to send the dog. The “remote sits” are allowed only at the master level. A dog can fail the remote sit if it breaks before being released by Judges. A dog that fails to remain at the remote sit, but doesn’t break is not automatically failed, but is marked down in cooperation.

§  No “walk-ups” are allowed at the Certification or Advanced level. (For marked or blind retrieves at these levels, the Handler must be permitted to bring the dog to the line and sit it before any duck call or shot is heard or a bird is thrown.) At the discretion of the Judges, “walk-ups” may be required at the Master level.

§  Decisions of the Judges are final.

§  Judges will be available after the test to discuss individual dog’s scoring and to answer any questions or concerns about the tests. During the test any questions or concerns should be addressed to the designated Marshal, not directly to the Judges. After the test has concluded and passing dogs have been announced, Handlers can ask the Judges questions about their specific dog’s performance. This must be done in a respectful and sportsmanlike manner.

§  Definition of a Re-send: A re-send is the result of confusion at the line. Once the dog makes an attempt to retrieve or a hunt starts it is no longer a re-send.

§  Definition of a Controlled Break: A controlled break is defined as the dog showing intent to retrieve before being released by 

That seems upland applicable to me ? But what do I know . 

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RJ Marquart, Quicksilver Kennels in Washington has got his pointing labs with more style ive seen on some Pointers. He’s who I would go to. 

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18 hours ago, GB Jack said:

That seems upland applicable to me ? But what do I know . 

 

I have no idea how you tell the difference between a "Test" and a "Trial"?  

 

But I agree with JBJack - looks upland applicable to me.  

I'm on my 3rd pointing Lab in 26 years.  I'm happy, they work for what I do.  

They've hunted Ruffled Grouse, Sharptails, Prairie Chickens, Pheasants, Ducks, Geese, Cranes, Doves and Huns.

 

Do they always point?  No - but they have worked the birds well enough that I've taken all of the above over them.

 

My second PL Pete was the best pointer of the three.  

 

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Unless something has changed since 2008 or so, Julie Knutson's book is the authority on PLs.  I still have my copy.

 

I think some of the versatile books would apply also.

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18 hours ago, bigjohnsd said:

 

I have no idea how you tell the difference between a "Test" and a "Trial"?  

 

 

 

The best way to understand the difference is enter your dog in a test then enter the same dog in a trial. The short answer is that Tests are scored and Trials are judged.

 

Hal

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18 hours ago, bigjohnsd said:

 

I have no idea how you tell the difference between a "Test" and a "Trial"?  

 

 

I know nothing about pointing labs but the difference between a test and a trial is fairly simple.

Hunt tests are scored events and you either pass or fail. Lets say 50 dogs enter a hunt test, it's possible every single dog will pass.

 

A field trial is a competition and there is only one winner (and maybe a 2nd and 3rd place etc). In a field trial if 50 dogs enter, there will be only one winner, the dog that did the best job that day in the eyes of the judges.

 

A hunt test is a decent way to verify a dog has what it takes to be competent hunting dog. 

A field trial is a way to show which dog is the best hunting dog (at least on that day). 

 

In the conventional pointing dog realm and to my way of thinking hunt tests are more for dog owners to verify their dog and their training was sufficient to pass muster as a hunting dog but they really aren't a good tool for evaluating breed worthiness. Field trials are really about determining the best breeding candidates, the field trial winners not only showed they were competent hunters, they showed they excelled relative to the other competent hunting dogs.  

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2 hours ago, Flush said:

A field trial is a competition and there is only one winner (and maybe a 2nd and 3rd place etc). In a field trial if 50 dogs enter, there will be only one winner, the dog that did the best job that day in the eyes of the judges.

 

A hunt test is a decent way to verify a dog has what it takes to be competent hunting dog. 

A field trial is a way to show which dog is the best hunting dog (at least on that day). 

That's pretty much it right there.  My first Field Champion lab was already a Master Hunter at her first Field Trial and we didn't make the last series.  We finished out of the running in Field Trials more than I care to admit (trainer/handler error as much as anything).  We eventually learned the game and she earned her FC; but they kill you with d*mn that pencil...

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My thought are if you want a full game bag and hunt everything you really can’t do any better than a lab. They are the “pickup truck” of gun dogs not the fastest not the pretties but damn sure the most useful.

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