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Question for pointy dog people.


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On 2/23/2021 at 2:18 PM, SelbyLowndes said:

I don't much like run-off dogs.  If they don't come back it is just one less rabies shot to pay for next Fall...SelbyLowndes

I don't know if I agree fully with you Sel but I've been there and I really, Really, understand it.

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I have a command - "leave it" - that means get away from whatever thing or critter you are messing with right now.  I will use that command when I want to dog to just move on to other things.  My rele

We have one covert that I despise when Abby finds a bird in it.  Either Floyd or I, depending on whose turn it is from season to season, has to crawl in on hands and knees under the cat briers to flus

Yes it’s a pain in the A** but I look at it this way “ it’s the the dogs job to point and hold and my job to flush”.  These are my rules, if you can call your dog off of point and it does no harm, the

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On 2/23/2021 at 4:21 PM, bobman said:

I would just go find the dog, calling him off or buzzing him off isn’t something I would ever do.  if I thought there was any even remote possibility he was pointing a bird he’s not getting buzzed. I want him rock steady period.

 

I will use juice on one doing something dangerous like porkys, snakes or roads but never on a bird and never if I don’t know what he’s pointing 
 

 

 

 

I should clarify that I (speaking only for myself) refer to "buzzing" a dog I'm referring to a Vibrate Only warning feature on the E-collar, the dog is not "Riding the Lightning" There is also a Tone Warning and a  momentary shock, a continuous stimulation, flashing light on each individual collar units, a LED flashlight, and I kid you not, 100 levels of stimulation and all controlled by a hand held unit

smaller and much lighter than a pack of standard playing cards. Wow!

     I remember getting my first E- collar, a Dogtra I think. Expensive, Heavy as a boat anchor, comparably lousy battery life,

Good range however and I believe you could boil dow it's stimulation levels to - 

1. Low

2. Medium

3. High

4. River Dance

 

We;ve come a Long way Baby!

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I never knowingly call my dogs off a point. They would ignore me if I did so, I think.

 

But your situation is a bit different - my dogs run in an enclosed paddock and are never loose unless we're hunting or training. I'm sorry I have no suggestions for how to call your dog back when on point. Maybe a fence is in your future if this is a real and frequent problem?

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Chuckermans last post reminded me of "The Old Days" prior to the popular switch to beepers and the fact that you had to pay pretty close attention to the bell on your dog's collar so - 1. you would be alerted that your dog was on point or otherwise generally sticking to a very small piece of real estate and 2. you have a general idea as to the dog's location/ distance. 

    What tripped a few synapses was "I never knowingly called a dog off a bird" , Something clicks, huh? So that begs the question, okay

so how many times have I done it unwittingly? I guess that will forever remain one of those unanswered mysteries of life.

Everybody has to play their own game but I don't see calling a dog off a point if the dogs solid on pointing and steadiness, is going to do harm. Does training and enforcing steadiness when the dogs natural instinct is to break and chase ruin or degrade prey drive? Well perhaps in young formative and less unfailing point or drive. They require a light touch and plenty of encouragement. The rest? Well for myself I'd rather not have my dog hit scent and disappear trailing a scent rich roadside ditch ignoring a recall and maybe chasing a bird that broke amd flushed with the dog in pursuit and across a county road where many a dog will meet their end by a car or truck. It is a hazard and dogs do wind up killed.

    If you test in the German system or NAVHDA and you are in the bird field you may call your dog = once. (very often you get away with a vocal recall followed immediately by a whistle call which actually counts as 2 commands) after that you get the option, recall again or go look for the dog. However if you call again and the dog does not comply they deduct points from the score. You should always go look for the dog but remember it's an example of how much importance obedience is given. Once an order is given it is to be Obeyed! Once given the dog remains under that command until it is released from it. The very best of the best, work as an integrated team. The dog checks in always knowing where the handler is and anticipating his/her's desires. Co-operation at a very high level. But the Handler runs the show and gives the orders and the orders are obeyed. 

     It's a pleasure just watching a partnership like those perform on advanced tests or doing it all in the woods or marsh.

Americans on the whole tend towards underestimating how much their dogs can do and do very well

    I know the late Annie Belle, on her second trip up to the UP took me on a wild goose chase over a large portion of a old dried up lake bed thick with young sapling willow, tag alder and labrador tea after she zeroed in on a newly beaver dammed stream that helped feed the old lake. The ducks led the dog and my frustrated butt all over that place and I'd of

happily called Raggedy Annie off those birds in a New York minute. 

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In the seventys I had an orange ticked English Pointer named Missy.  She was a big rawboned ugly old dog when I got her and I got her because I was dogless at the time and usually hunted alone and she would not back for any dog. She wasn't what you'd call snake broke and instead was a snake killer. Poisonous or not she would dance around the snake like a mongoose until she saw an opening and in a flash you'd see the killing shake of her head breaking the snake's neck.

 

Other than those idiosyncrasies she was an effective quail dog.  However on those days when the birds weren't biting at all, she'd lose interest, disappear and go off possum hunting on her own.  I reckon she pulled them out of hollow logs or something but she'd kill them and bring them in to me.  She was so proud of them I had to carry them in my bird bag some days.   I remember one was just playing possum and came back to life in my vest.

 

Anyhow, when she'd disappear I always knew she'd come back when I fired a shot.  And she always did...SelbyLowndes 

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On 2/24/2021 at 1:04 PM, mccuha said:

Todd, some old time farmers would use mock orange hedges as substitutes for fencing.  Miserable shrub.  Gil

Would these "Mock Oranges" also be known as Osage Oranges as well? They were used from time to time as natural fences or trimmed low so as to spread and form a more low shrubby tree. Very dense wood, very useful in older times for "night wood" as it would burn very slowly allowing a few large pieces would still be glowing hot. A very good thing if you had to get the fire back up. Pretty common in Illinois and much less so in southern Wisconsin. Hawthorne was the very common shrubby tree that had some really brutal long straight and sharp thorns. Grew like crabgrass in about the same regions. Kind of a more southern substitute for Tag Alder. Fruit or Hips might be more correct, tend towards being woody or fibrous but if picked at the right time are soft and tasty. A somewhat orange-ish citrus flavor. Might the Hawthorne and the Mock Orange be one and the same?

 

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11 hours ago, Spin said:

Would these "Mock Oranges" also be known as Osage Oranges as well? They were used from time to time as natural fences or trimmed low so as to spread and form a more low shrubby tree. Very dense wood, very useful in older times for "night wood" as it would burn very slowly allowing a few large pieces would still be glowing hot. A very good thing if you had to get the fire back up. Pretty common in Illinois and much less so in southern Wisconsin. Hawthorne was the very common shrubby tree that had some really brutal long straight and sharp thorns. Grew like crabgrass in about the same regions. Kind of a more southern substitute for Tag Alder. Fruit or Hips might be more correct, tend towards being woody or fibrous but if picked at the right time are soft and tasty. A somewhat orange-ish citrus flavor. Might the Hawthorne and the Mock Orange be one and the same?

 

Not sure.  I know they have a thorn on them that can get over 2"  long and as sharp as a hyperdermic needle.  They have fruit that looks like an orange and has a citrus smell. When you cut them open all is in there are the yellowish seeds.  I've never tried tasting them. I'd been told they were poisonus but don't know that for sure.the can get to over 20' tall.  I'd hate to know I had to cut them to get wood from them due to the stickers.  Im pretty sure they were some type of ornamental and I could se where they could be planted to be used as a barrier for cattle.

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