Jump to content

Bail Outs For Auto Industry?


Recommended Posts

Go ahead and do it, with two provisions.  First eliminate and require some pay back of those obscene CEO salaries and perks, second kill the UAW.  Then the foreign auto makers could have some real competition, when the playing field could be more level.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 215
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • bobman

    25

  • nickwilliams

    20

  • Breakfast Boy

    11

Outside the US suppliers working in the assembly plant is a common practice. The last UAW contract started to address that issue by allowing many more non UAW people to work in the plants. That is a unions job, to protect its members. The UAW is meeting tomorrow to discuss reopening the contract to make more concessions to help secure the bridge loan.
Link to post
Share on other sites

As a supplier of tooling for the automotive industry we have had a record year in 2008. We have invested in technology and have found cheaper and better ways to build our tooling more cost effective. 2009 also looked like it would be a banner year after enduring years of just getting buy while we worked hard to compete with out sourcing to China, India and other low cost countries that subsidize their manufacturing. After being encouraged to send non critical components to China in the past from our customers, we have now proven that we can do the work cheaper here with our capital investments in technology. We have plenty of work but are not getting paid for our delivered product that we normally have to wait 180 days to get paid for. On most of this work we are a teir2 where the company we have worked for is conserving cash and will not pay its suppliers. After what I feel is doing everything right we will lock the doors in a matter of weeks when the money is not there to pay our employs. If you think bankruptcy is a better option than a loan, consider the thousand of companies that supply the big 3.  

It really makes me mad that the citizens of this country forget or are ignorant to how much midwest manufactoring had to do with making this country what it is today and what it would mean to loose that.

-Jeff

Link to post
Share on other sites

the only folks that b*t*h and moan about unions are the folks that weren't lucky enough to get in one. (me included) my old man a retired steel worker didn't have to worry about health care or a lot of other things I'm never going to have after working at the same place 30 years..

if you don't bail them out.. (really a loan)  you will be telling your grandkids about the depression of '09 like your grandfather told you about '29.

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you don't bail them out.. (really a loan)  you will be telling your grandkids about the depression of '09 like your grandfather told you about '29.

Everyone is talking about how disastrous it's going to be if we don't bail out the auto industry, the financial sector, the airline industry, and who knows what we will learn next week that will also need to be bailed out. And no doubt, it will be a widespread disaster. But what I don't hear anyone talking about is how equally disastrous it is going to be for us (taxpayers) to be bearing the burden of trillions of dollars in debt, on top of the pre-existing national debt, which is the largest amount in history.

I'd love to find some optimism in all this, but it seems to me our economy is in shambles either way. So should we be focusing on short-term band-aids (which is what I believe we're currently doing) or taking the long view of what will most make us economically strongest in the long term? We can't just keep throwing tax-payer dollars at archaic industries that are failing and think that that is any sort of real, long-term solution.

The money is real - not just some imaginary thing that we make more of when we need it. All of these bailouts, and a financial system, and our manufacturing infrastructure, and our airline industry, being completely reliant on tax-payer funding in order to survive will also result in an economic hardship the likes of which we'll be talking to our grandkids about. In fact, those same grandkids will still be paying off the debt of our generation. Either way, we are about to swallow some very hard lumps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think there will be a Ch 11 deal.

Yesterday I read that 61% of Americans were against the proposed bail out.  I was on the fence on this one but I have moved firmly against a bail out.  A Ch 11 deal with federal loans to restructure is something I could support.

I don't like being threatened which is what I believe is being done to the US tax payer right now.  I am tired of the whinning and phony numbers.  In a best case, the industry is going to come out greatly reduced in size, yet those doing the begging only talk about how many jobs will be lost in the event of a BK.  The real issue is the marginal difference between a filing and a straight out bail out.  That number will be far less than the numbers currently being thrown around.

The industry and its workers are not owed anything by the tax payers.

I am beginning to think that the public would be much better served by just giving grants to small businesses than wasting anything on the "little three".

Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like being threatened which is what I believe is being done to the US tax payer right now.  I am tired of the whinning and phony numbers.  

Agreed. I'm beginning to think this whole thing is the biggest fear-based extortion that Corporate America and the Government have ever foisted on the public. Hell, the director of the GAO just said yesterday that there is essentially no oversight currently happening over distribution of funds from TARP (the Wall St. bailout package). The Treasury Dept. response? "We've been handing it out so quickly that it has been impossible to keep track of all of it." WTF?

Anyone take notice of the $85 billion airline bailout that happened the week before the Wall Street effluent hit the oscillator? Barely even got mentioned in light of the much bigger subsequent bailout the following week. And how exactly do all these different sectors simultaneously need all this money in such short order? The airlines and the auto industry are both in part blaming soaring gas prices...but what have gas prices been doing all fall? The biggest drop in prices we've ever seen (on the heels of the biggest increase we'd ever seen). Further evidence of additional extortion on the part of the oil industry.

Perpetuating all this by leaving tax-payers with the bill is unacceptable. Let the chips fall where they may - we'll deal. I have no doubt it won't be pretty in the short term, but if we still have the balls and innovation that we built this country on, we'll survive. And by cutting off these leeches that our economy has become "inseparable from," we could hardly do worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The industry and its workers are not owed anything by the tax payers

if you let the automakers fail.. they take out a lots of folks other then just UAW members. (see JClyma post)  btw, currently those workers are taxpayers. if all those workers are out of jobs then you better crank up the food stamp presses and those left with jobs better be prepared for a huge tax increase. a very small percentage of those newly unemployed workers are ever going to find jobs and go back to work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The industry and its workers are not owed anything by the tax payers

if you let the automakers fail.. they take out a lots of folks other then just UAW members. (see JClyma post)  btw, currently those workers are taxpayers. if all those workers are out of jobs then you better crank up the food stamp presses and those left with jobs better be prepared for a huge tax increase. a very small percentage of those newly unemployed workers are ever going to find jobs and go back to work.

I believe that for what we're spending on bailing out these archaic industries, we can put that labor force to work. In fact I think the money (OUR money, let's not forget) could be much better served in this way.

We can spend this huge amount of money that we're using to prop up these flailing companies instead with public works programs, etc. (which are badly needed in many parts of our country) while we pour the rest of it into a massive cash infusion to speed up development on emerging technology industries that we should have been investing in a long time ago, except that the auto and oil industries blocked it at every turn.

The development of new, cutting edge industries will employ our labor force of the future, not old, propped-up industries that can't survive without corporate welfare.

Link to post
Share on other sites

a very small percentage of those newly unemployed workers are ever going to find jobs and go back to work.

Yup, you really nailed it!  If folks (like UAW) can't have their cushy jobs with exceptional benefits, union "protection", and job security...well then screw it, they just won't find a new job.  This is a huge part of the current problem.  UAW and auto industry folks have no clue just how fortunate they have been for the past 40 years.  To the point where they now feel entitled to the cushy job with all the perks.

Welcome to the real world and a dose of reality!  If I was fired or laid off tomorrow you can bet that I'd do everything in my power to provide my family with income.  Not sit on my azz and feel persecuted and sorry for myself.  Maybe I'd have to take a lower paying job in a completely different field of work, but I'd be employed, not sitting around lamenting the failure of poorly-managed big industries.  

The quote above is the perfect example of why the auto industry NEEDS to be reorganized (through chapter 11 or otherwise).  Entitled, union-emboldened employees working for corrupt and greedy execs is a recepie for disaster.  And now that the compost has finally hit the fan, the rest of the US taxpayers are supposed to bail them all out?  Give me a freaking break.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Entitled, union-emboldened employees working for corrupt and greedy execs is a recepie for disaster.  And now that the compost has finally hit the fan, the rest of the US taxpayers are supposed to bail them all out?  Give me a freaking break.

DING! But wait - I thought the CEO's of the Big 3 just testified that this all happened, not through fault of their own, but as a result of the economic crisis and the fact that people can't afford to buy cars right now? Ha. Yeah, right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who are in favor of a bailout and/or the auto unions, what in your opinion has caused the failure of the big 3?

Coporate greed only?

Do the Unions share any blame?

Maybe it's just those darn consumers?

Of course thats assuming you agree they failed. If you don't, I'd love to hear your explanation of their success, and why successful business operations need big bailouts from time to time.

-Flush

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we would be better off in the long run to let the Auto companies go through bankruptcy  Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 and emerge as smaller competetive entities.  It seems more prudent to spend the Billions they are asking for in bailout money for infrastructure projects.  

The tax consequences of the "bailout" for our kids are unquantifiable.  These numbers are so big that no one can get their arms around them.  

As someone pointed out in a note on a Ford video clip above.  Vehicles can be manufactured in much more efficent ways than the big three are doing here in america.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...